Meeting: Planning Commission Meeting

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Event transcript
	In 1952.	00:00:00
	One word.	00:00:24
	Thank you.	00:00:29
	Jamie, I have 5:30. Are you guys?	00:01:34
	Ready. OK.	00:01:37
	Going to call to order our Planning Commission meeting.	00:01:40
	Our first order of business is a approval.	00:01:43
	Of the minutes from our last meeting.	00:01:47
	Are there any additions or edits that members have?	00:01:49
	I'll make a motion to approve the minute. All right, we have a motion to approve. Do we have a second?	00:01:53
	All right, all those in favor.	00:01:58
	Alright, minutes have been.	00:02:00
	Approved.	00:02:02
	Our second item is approval of the agenda, and we do have some changes here.	00:02:04
	So under old business?	00:02:09
	Item number one has been tabled until next month.	00:02:12
	And item number 2 has been tabled until the moratorium.	00:02:15
	Has ended.	00:02:20
	For that, so that we don't know when that will be coming back.	00:02:22
	Under new business.	00:02:26
	Number The 1st special use permit item number.	00:02:30
	One has been withdrawn.	00:02:33
	By the applicant.	00:02:35
	So we're going to, once these are approved, we're going to be starting with items.	00:02:37
	Two and three.	00:02:41
	Under new business.	00:02:42
	I would say it's going to be a shorter meeting, but that would be unlucky to say that out loud so.	00:02:44
	All right. Any other changes that need to be made? Do we have a motion to approve the? All right.	00:02:50
	Do we have a second?	00:02:58
	All those in favor, aye.	00:02:59
	All right, revised agenda has been approved.	00:03:01
	So with that.	00:03:05
	We have no old business. We're going to start under new business.	00:03:06
	With item 2.	00:03:10
	This is a rezoning request.	00:03:12
	Do we have a a representative?	00:03:14
	For this if you want to provide any comment on this.	00:03:17
	And so if you want to, we have people that are listening.	00:03:23
	In and watching this so if you want to step to the microphone.	00:03:26
	If you'll give your name and address and then any comment that you want to add with this.	00:03:31
	What you might want folks to know.	00:03:37
	And then start with good evening.	00:03:39
	My name is Ruben.	00:03:42
	I am a local civil engineer.	00:03:46
	And I have entertained.	00:03:49
	By Missus Hammett.	00:03:52
	In the installing process.	00:03:54
	She owns a.	00:03:57
	A leftover partial.	00:03:58
	Triangular shape.	00:04:02
	And he has the.	00:04:04
	The power line that takes.	00:04:06
	Two stories of the property.	00:04:08
	In the remaining piece.	00:04:11
	She would like to place a trailer for her to live with her family.	00:04:14
	And in order to do that.	00:04:18
	We need to change.	00:04:20
	The zoning from R5.	00:04:22
	To MH.	00:04:24
	And I have toast the problem.	00:04:27
	When I talked to the developer.	00:04:30
	And and so on.	00:04:32
	And it seems that everything is in order for the way I see it.	00:04:35
	So if you have any questions please.	00:04:39
	Do so.	00:04:41
	I just have a question.	00:04:42
	How are you planning to get to that piece of property?	00:04:44
	All right, the way I have found out, there are two ways to get there.	00:04:47
	There is the partial a.	00:04:52
	Which was left by the developer.	00:04:55
	Because he was.	00:04:58
	Reviewing an access.	00:04:59
	To a proper next door.	00:05:01
	OK, that's partially.	00:05:03
	Now also if.	00:05:04
	When we we hire a surveyor to do.	00:05:07
	It's already properly.	00:05:10
	And he found that.	00:05:12
	Ah, as part of the.	00:05:14
	Well then, right away.	00:05:17
	Of Royal of Georgia Power.	00:05:19
	There is a 20 foot.	00:05:22
	Axis that goes all the way.	00:05:24
	The main Rd.	00:05:27
	Good.	00:05:30
	All the way to.	00:05:34
	It's over on the way to Dolphins, Yeah.	00:05:35
	It is. It is growing with vegetation, but.	00:05:38
	You need to be cleared up and we want to do so, so they would.	00:05:42
	What about from the other side?	00:05:46
	Can you pull it down?	00:05:49
	There's another St. there, isn't there?	00:05:51
	Where there's a lot, they said cul-de-sac.	00:05:53
	Oh, that's part of the base. OK, so that would be the only way, yeah.	00:05:56
	They said cul-de-sac from the other side.	00:06:00
	And then there is the partial a as I mentioned before.	00:06:03
	So which which way do they think they're going to come in through part?	00:06:07
	Parcel A or from Douglas.	00:06:10
	Well, you know, we humans usually go the easiest way, so right now we're probably going to go over the cul-de-sac.	00:06:14
	Go to parcel A.	00:06:22
	And Cont.	00:06:23
	Go to the right away.	00:06:24
	If that becomes inconvenient.	00:06:26
	Then we will go from Douglas, OK.	00:06:29
	All the way along the.	00:06:32
	The ride away, OK.	00:06:34
	So I think that.	00:06:37
	Fits with what we've got in this.	00:06:38
	Is all the property where it will rest?	00:06:42
	Cleared at the moment or is it back in?	00:06:45
	Part of it in the woods behind thee.	00:06:47
	House, it is about half clear.	00:06:49
	There's there's no, no, no trees, but there's vegetation was 4 foot high at this point.	00:06:52
	But we haven't touched it.	00:06:58
	Because we don't want to get in trouble, but we won't like to do so.	00:07:00
	So would you clear that whole section out? Yeah.	00:07:04
	Although Georgia Power is supposed to take care of that but.	00:07:08
	You know, we want that to be cleared up.	00:07:11
	OK. All right. Jamie, have you received any comments on?	00:07:14
	At all? No.	00:07:18
	Go ahead.	00:07:22
	I got water too.	00:07:24
	How do you how do you get that to the?	00:07:27
	Well, there's a.	00:07:31
	There's water on the House. 175 next one.	00:07:33
	And it's water there.	00:07:37
	Of course we will object to our septic tank if that's allowed in.	00:07:41
	I mean, we haven't come to that point yet because I've.	00:07:48
	Part of it or the approval for the actual location?	00:07:50
	Walking home.	00:07:55
	OK, OK.	00:07:58
	Other questions from the Commissioner. We can go to Jamie for her presentation.	00:08:00
	Thank you. Well.	00:08:06
	We'll turn it over to the city at this point and then we might come back to you for additional questions. Thank you.	00:08:07
	All right, Thank you. I.	00:08:15
	This isn't working is it?	00:08:17
	No, it is.	00:08:19
	I'll speak loudly.	00:08:22
	OK, before you this evening under new business is a rezoning Mr. Ruben Gomez on behalf of.	00:08:23
	Maria Ahmed.	00:08:30
	Requests a rezoning of tax parcel 135017A.	00:08:32
	From R5.	00:08:37
	To manufactured housing or MH.	00:08:38
	The time and location is known as the lot adjacent to the northeast corner of the old Jefferson Estates subdivision.	00:08:41
	Similarly to some of the questions that the Commission has had.	00:08:48
	Staff also had questions about access and how you intend to access and now that has been made more clear.	00:08:51
	We do have record of the easement.	00:08:58
	To get to your comment, Commissioner King.	00:09:01
	At this point in time, this is a rezoning, not.	00:09:05
	Not a We're not creating this lot. This lot was already created.	00:09:09
	So when?	00:09:14
	Miss Ahmed goes to site her home.	00:09:16
	There will be a site plan application and part of that site plan application will require.	00:09:18
	The connecting to utilities and that will be reviewed by our city engineer.	00:09:23
	I don't know why I'm talking in this.	00:09:28
	Furthermore, so staff has.	00:09:32
	Reviewed this application based on our rezoning criteria.	00:09:35
	And this is articulated for you, Commissioners.	00:09:40
	Through your staff memos.	00:09:44
	This is not something that.	00:09:48
	Result in spot zoning this is.	00:09:50
	A question that has come up.	00:09:52
	For us before.	00:09:54
	On the Commission.	00:09:55
	The use is still single family residential.	00:09:56
	The idea is that the type of structure.	00:10:00
	That is going to be placed.	00:10:03
	Requires the manufactured housing zoning.	00:10:05
	So staff does not consider this spot zoning this is this is still.	00:10:07
	Residential single family use.	00:10:12
	The land, as was said, is directly adjacent to the base.	00:10:15
	Our comprehensive plan has this.	00:10:21
	Future land use and development to be residential, both single family and multifamily.	00:10:24
	Staff recommends approval of this rezoning.	00:10:32
	And any future development would follow the manufactured housing standard.	00:10:35
	Go ahead, Jamie. Are there any requirements?	00:10:44
	In that.	00:10:47
	Neighborhood as far as.	00:10:47
	The distance between.	00:10:49
	Homes or setbacks or.	00:10:50
	I want to look at it.	00:10:55
	It seemed like a.	00:10:56
	I couldn't.	00:10:58
	Quite picture looking at it.	00:10:58
	Where this would sit?	00:11:00
	Or it would be really close to the other house that I.	00:11:02
	You couldn't tell from the street.	00:11:05
	How much land went back into the what's?	00:11:07
	The non.	00:11:10
	Grass area.	00:11:12
	So what I'll do is I'll try to show that.	00:11:15
	On this.	00:11:18
	Aerial image.	00:11:20
	So what is being highlighted if you can see it? The blue triangle?	00:11:21
	Is the subject parcel?	00:11:26
	If you direct your attention to this part of your packet.	00:11:29
	You'll see that the.	00:11:33
	Southwesterly border there.	00:11:36
	Behind the the existing housing.	00:11:40
	They're proposing a 20 foot set that.	00:11:43
	So the OK, I'm sorry, I should have picked that up.	00:11:46
	And I think per.	00:11:49
	This site plan it seems as though the.	00:11:51
	The front.	00:11:53
	The lab will almost Orient itself like this.	00:11:55
	And that the front of the house.	00:11:59
	Will be towards the easement.	00:12:01
	Towards the cleared land.	00:12:03
	So, Jamie, I had a question on this SO.	00:12:12
	Because of the zoning on this.	00:12:16
	I read that as if that would allow.	00:12:20
	More than one unit.	00:12:22
	To be placed.	00:12:24
	On this lot.	00:12:25
	Do we actually have any?	00:12:28
	Restriction on this, so it's proposed as.	00:12:31
	One unit is being.	00:12:34
	Placed but based on the size.	00:12:36
	Of the.	00:12:38
	Plot with their.	00:12:39
	By approving this with multi with manufactured housing zoning.	00:12:41
	Since it's not an R1.	00:12:46
	With a special use permit, would it allow?	00:12:49
	Multiple units to be placed there.	00:12:52
	My first response is no.	00:12:56
	I'm trying to remember.	00:12:59
	In the MH zoning, A manufactured housing.	00:13:01
	Park requires a certain minimum square footage. Do you remember what it is?	00:13:03
	I want to say like 5 acres.	00:13:08
	Give me a minute.	00:13:11
	We'll get there.	00:13:12
	And I know that's not what they're requesting, but the.	00:13:20
	The zoning that we apply will live beyond.	00:13:23
	May I say something if you feel comfortable?	00:13:26
	We will accept the institution of 1 unit.	00:13:31
	As long as the case.	00:13:35
	OK.	00:13:36
	At least just confirmed that per the manufactured housing zoning.	00:13:39
	A manufactured housing park, which would mean.	00:13:44
	More than one unit.	00:13:47
	Would have to have 4 acres all right. So by definition we don't have to be concerned about.	00:13:48
	Putting some kind of limitation.	00:13:54
	OK.	00:13:56
	And then I thought in the past discussions and I know that we've.	00:13:56
	Had many discussions about this.	00:14:00
	I thought that we had come to a.	00:14:03
	Sort of agreement of looking at what the.	00:14:07
	General whether that was a type.	00:14:11
	Of housing that was in that general area.	00:14:13
	Or not as part of our approval.	00:14:16
	Process on this and.	00:14:18
	My read on that was that.	00:14:20
	That's not part of.	00:14:22
	Directly in this.	00:14:24
	Area.	00:14:26
	So it seemed inconsistent with how we.	00:14:30
	Have in the past.	00:14:33
	Looked at things.	00:14:35
	Yeah, Yeah, I tend to agree with that assessment.	00:14:40
	There's further down.	00:14:51
	On Douglas there are some.	00:14:52
	Manufactured units back in they're particularly.	00:14:55
	Beyond where the.	00:14:58
	You know new development has happened.	00:15:00
	But it's not.	00:15:04
	Really in I I didn't see that as.	00:15:05
	Being close enough to be sort of a reference point on that.	00:15:09
	I think the only thing that I can.	00:15:19
	Really. Say.	00:15:21
	About that is that I do feel as though.	00:15:25
	In the past when there was.	00:15:28
	A significant pushback from the public.	00:15:32
	We talked about how.	00:15:35
	That housing typology is not in the neighborhood.	00:15:38
	But if we're looking at our.	00:15:43
	Rezoning criteria specifically.	00:15:46
	I would not call this an illogical extension of surrounding uses.	00:15:51
	Because the surrounding uses are single family.	00:15:56
	Presidential.	00:16:00
	But this is it's currently our 5, right? Correct. So it could be.	00:16:01
	Duplexer A triplexer? It could be again.	00:16:06
	That might even besides a single family home.	00:16:11
	And I'm assuming that neighborhood is is owned the same way.	00:16:16
	Our fives, it is the surrounding neighborhood is our 5.	00:16:19
	So there's a.	00:16:24
	Fair amount of flexibility already in the R5.	00:16:26
	All right, other questions from our comments.	00:16:34
	Commission members.	00:16:37
	Yes, let me just.	00:16:39
	I I see on the survey.	00:16:41
	I was done by Roger Bennett.	00:16:43
	The Georgia Power easement and the 20 foot.	00:16:45
	Access easement.	00:16:48
	If you don't have any of the ease of documentation.	00:16:50
	That shows.	00:16:53
	A permanent access to this.	00:16:56
	One anchor.	00:16:58
	Well, somebody should if it exists, but.	00:17:01
	I would think that we would want to see.	00:17:05
	Proof that.	00:17:08
	This is a developable lot.	00:17:09
	With Open Access, I've never seen Georgia Power.	00:17:11
	There's obviously going to be a between an access easement and the Georgia Power easement.	00:17:16
	One of them is going to be senior to the other.	00:17:23
	And I suspect the Georgia Power region looks going to be senior, too.	00:17:26
	The excess easement.	00:17:29
	Which means it's not. It's subject to.	00:17:31
	I've never seen Georgia Power.	00:17:34
	Issue a private easement on.	00:17:36
	On their property that the intent is to have access to.	00:17:38
	Maintain their equipment.	00:17:43
	But if Georgia Power, otherwise it'd be a license, I guess they could grant.	00:17:45
	But I I would want to see documentation.	00:17:48
	That there is access from one place or another.	00:17:51
	That.	00:17:55
	This proposed site benefits from or.	00:17:56
	Or my thinking is I don't think we should be.	00:17:59
	Making any zoning decisions unless it's a buildable lot.	00:18:02
	Regardless of the use.	00:18:07
	Isn't it already zoned as a buildable lot?	00:18:09
	Well, it has zoning displaystone, but there's no it.	00:18:12
	Evidence for documentation that is legal access.	00:18:15
	Forget about utilities.	00:18:19
	You know you'd have to have an agreement with a private party to run through their yard or.	00:18:20
	Or with utilities from the street or the cul-de-sac.	00:18:24
	Just because a lot in front of you has utility access.	00:18:28
	Doesn't mean you do behind it.	00:18:32
	And you'd have to go through somebody else's property to get to it.	00:18:33
	You need an agreement with that property owner.	00:18:36
	Yes. So I mean, there's no evidence that it's got access to utilities.	00:18:39
	Well, but, but, you know, we have to go one step at a time.	00:18:44
	You want me to come with the reasoning and have all these permits at hand?	00:18:48
	That's not logical.	00:18:52
	At least not in my view.	00:18:53
	OK, now let me say something else.	00:18:55
	What you have there right now?	00:18:58
	Is an eyesore.	00:19:00
	That will continue to be that way because.	00:19:02
	That lot is almost useless.	00:19:05
	Well, that's my point.	00:19:09
	Completely.	00:19:10
	Well, so you prefer to have that eyesore over there?	00:19:11
	And someone to come and do a project that gets built without that, without utilities or, or access. Yes, well, we're going to have	00:19:15
	a septic tank on a will.	00:19:20
	If you allow it.	00:19:25
	You need to apply, you need to investigate that, but.	00:19:27
	And provide evidence that you can get approval for a septic tank with your application.	00:19:29
	But isn't that in the next step?	00:19:35
	Well, that's what I'm saying. It appears that it's not.	00:19:37
	Developable site as it's presented.	00:19:41
	And unless.	00:19:43
	They've got documentation the easement would have you could obtain for.	00:19:45
	Very little work.	00:19:49
	But we don't even have an easement that shows from Georgia Power, from anybody else that shows access to this site.	00:19:51
	And you know.	00:19:58
	I just think it should be.	00:20:00
	Except the city has already approved it as a residential area. So at this point in time.	00:20:02
	When they're asking for a rezoning, I think that might be at the next step.	00:20:08
	I'm not inclined to support it. OK.	00:20:14
	That was readily rezoned.	00:20:16
	With development it borders.	00:20:19
	At one time.	00:20:22
	All that was one piece of property.	00:20:23
	And that was all zone.	00:20:26
	At one time, this wasn't zoned separately.	00:20:27
	Anything else?	00:20:31
	So it's sort of an uneconomic remnant.	00:20:33
	Will be that the builder the?	00:20:35
	Develop the development in front of it.	00:20:38
	Chose not to develop that lot.	00:20:41
	Because there's no access to it. Or yes.	00:20:45
	What are you telling us?	00:20:49
	So, Jamie, is there a.	00:20:53
	Precedent here.	00:20:55
	I seems like we have a valid.	00:20:57
	Concern. I mean, there is a precedent, one that.	00:21:00
	I would the first one I would go to is that this is a lot of record.	00:21:03
	This is a real piece of property.	00:21:08
	So for us to say that this is unbuildable is not our decision to make.	00:21:10
	So that would be my first statement.	00:21:15
	And that would be addressed in.	00:21:17
	That would be interesting when one goes to Bill.	00:21:19
	Yep. And then?	00:21:22
	Going further.	00:21:24
	Engagement coming out to cul-de-sac going.	00:21:25
	Was designated to plant.	00:21:29
	And that development?	00:21:31
	For the two properties.	00:21:33
	Right across Georgia Power East.	00:21:36
	I I do hear what you're saying about the easement and I think.	00:21:41
	Staff was going.	00:21:44
	Per the Commission survey, there is a an annotation here of a 20 foot access easement, but no record as to who is the beneficiary	00:21:46
	of that. Easy.	00:21:51
	I I can't argue that.	00:21:57
	And it wouldn't. It would basically would be very easy to produce a copy of it.	00:22:00
	Even if you went to the courthouse?	00:22:04
	Make a copy of it.	00:22:06
	I would think this would be something you all would want.	00:22:08
	Find out.	00:22:11
	Because you might get the point where you start doing things and spending money.	00:22:12
	And finding out you can't get any power, he's not going to do that till it's rezoned.	00:22:16
	Well, to go through the workflow is going, yeah.	00:22:19
	If we approve it.	00:22:22
	Yeah, umm.	00:22:23
	So that he can go and then you can go and find out if you can do it.	00:22:24
	Yeah, because you may end up.	00:22:28
	Not being a.	00:22:31
	Able to get.	00:22:32
	Utilities.	00:22:33
	Well, that's a.	00:22:35
	Opinion, but remember.	00:22:38
	Georgia Power does not own that.	00:22:40
	Properly we do.	00:22:42
	All right, so I can I can go on and ask.	00:22:45
	Georgia Power to divorce a document saying that we.	00:22:49
	Use that, but we're reversing over here.	00:22:52
	The horses against the car.	00:22:57
	We own that.	00:22:59
	Right away.	00:23:01
	It's not Georgia Powerful.	00:23:02
	You know they are taking 2/3 or they are properly.	00:23:05
	But without it.	00:23:08
	An easement that's an easement of record. You know, you can go to, you go to Camden County and get a copy of it if you are.	00:23:10
	The beneficiary of that easement? It would be easy to locate.	00:23:17
	You say, well, I will have to be the beneficiary.	00:23:20
	It's a instrument.	00:23:23
	You know the surveyor.	00:23:24
	Took the responsibility.	00:23:26
	On doing that and put it on his.	00:23:29
	That does an oxygen.	00:23:32
	It is on his ground, that surreal.	00:23:34
	Did that so now.	00:23:37
	You want to put that responsibility on me, but it is on the survey.	00:23:40
	Absolutely.	00:23:43
	Yeah, it should be on you.	00:23:44
	Did you own the property record?	00:23:47
	Or y'all do?	00:23:49
	Yeah. What are the others here?	00:23:51
	Is the point I'm trying to make is I don't know that this?	00:23:52
	Directly relates to the issue in front of us.	00:23:56
	I'd like to move. We approve your.	00:23:59
	But I think, I think we have to.	00:24:06
	Allow, you know, we have to talk about improving this first and then all of that other stuff has to be done after that.	00:24:09
	OK, so let's.	00:24:16
	Pause the discussion.	00:24:18
	Do public comment on this and then come back to OK.	00:24:20
	Thank you. All right, so with that, I'm going to open up public comment on this item.	00:24:23
	If you'd like to make a comment if you'll come forward.	00:24:28
	Give your name and address and then any comment that you'd like to provide.	00:24:32
	All right. I'm not really seeing any movement here.	00:24:39
	So I'm going to go ahead and.	00:24:44
	Close public comment.	00:24:46
	Assuming that we don't have anyone that wants to.	00:24:48
	Give a comment at this point.	00:24:51
	All right, so that brings us back.	00:24:53
	To our discussion, there was a short pause.	00:24:56
	To try to figure out what to do with this.	00:25:00
	And I think.	00:25:03
	Do we want further discussion?	00:25:05
	I think Dan wants to make a motion.	00:25:07
	But I want to make sure that.	00:25:10
	Folks have had a chance to.	00:25:12
	I I know where I stand. Yeah, OK.	00:25:14
	All right.	00:25:18
	I moved to approve.	00:25:20
	The I don't know what's called the article.	00:25:24
	With the rezoning, the rezoning proposal.	00:25:27
	And encourage you to find out more.	00:25:31
	About.	00:25:33
	Your ability to build on it.	00:25:34
	But you have the permission.	00:25:36
	Of this group.	00:25:38
	But you may not have permission further on.	00:25:39
	Is that fair to say?	00:25:42
	OK. Do we have a second for that amount? Second.	00:25:45
	All right, all those in favor, aye?	00:25:48
	All right. I think I heard 2. So we don't have a majority here.	00:25:52
	So that motion has failed.	00:25:57
	Do we have a another motion? An alternative?	00:26:00
	Motion on this.	00:26:03
	I move with decline.	00:26:07
	Based on the conversation we've had.	00:26:08
	Without any further.	00:26:11
	OK. And.	00:26:12
	Jamie, I just want to clarify, do we have?	00:26:15
	An option here.	00:26:17
	Of tabling and because I think your concern is.	00:26:19
	You want a copy of the easement? Is that to the client's benefit? I think to take, yeah. My recommendation would be that we don't	00:26:24
	deny it, because if we deny, we need to give a.	00:26:29
	A basis for that denial.	00:26:34
	I think.	00:26:36
	The opportunity to just.	00:26:37
	What is the word I want to use?	00:26:42
	Confirm.	00:26:45
	The surveyors notation of an access easement.	00:26:46
	Through the legal.	00:26:50
	Document would be.	00:26:52
	Something that we could ask the applicant to do.	00:26:54
	Over the course of the next month.	00:26:57
	In preparation for.	00:26:59
	The November meeting.	00:27:02
	So that would be not a tabling, Forgive me. That's a continuation.	00:27:03
	OK, I would add to that and this is.	00:27:06
	I don't. We don't have to do anymore discussion about it.	00:27:09
	But I.	00:27:13
	Similar to Leslie's comment earlier.	00:27:16
	I don't view this as a.	00:27:18
	As a consistent extension of the uses of the property around it.	00:27:20
	If it were a single family dwelling.	00:27:25
	Or a one to five unit dwelling.	00:27:27
	I would agree. I would agree that it's consistent.	00:27:30
	And if it were more consistent, we'd probably.	00:27:35
	The the proposed views should would be.	00:27:38
	Covered within the.	00:27:41
	Or $1.00 or five something.	00:27:42
	So I think there's more than one reason, but I would probably agree that it may be.	00:27:45
	I may be more inclined.	00:27:50
	To approve that if there were.	00:27:52
	Clear evidence of.	00:27:54
	Access Utilities.	00:27:56
	Clear access. It was a buildable lot, in other words, Basically, yeah. And somebody should at least read the easement.	00:27:58
	Surveyor did. They should.	00:28:04
	Add a notation.	00:28:06
	On a survey that said.	00:28:07
	What is his notation said is that no public documentation provided.	00:28:09
	I think that was the case. Let me read it real quick.	00:28:14
	The survey was performed without the benefit of a formal title review.	00:28:17
	Which means I don't know the surveyor looked at it.	00:28:22
	Well, that's just a question. So I.	00:28:25
	I think I kind of interrupted you when you were trying to start to make a motion. You want to kind of.	00:28:27
	Rev.	00:28:33
	You want you.	00:28:34
	Postpone it.	00:28:36
	Is that your turn, Jamie?	00:28:38
	Continue. Continue.	00:28:39
	Or not.	00:28:43
	I'll second that. Well, you can second that we need a.	00:28:47
	A motion on that.	00:28:53
	Given that there's no.	00:28:54
	Member of the public or the neighborhood or anybody providing here this present here today.	00:28:56
	Voicing any opposition to it.	00:29:03
	I would propose that we.	00:29:06
	Continue it.	00:29:09
	OK.	00:29:11
	To a later date where there can be some supplemental information.	00:29:14
	OK to demonstrate that the site is.	00:29:18
	May be developed for any use.	00:29:21
	Access easement.	00:29:23
	The access easement.	00:29:26
	I agree with you. I I don't.	00:29:28
	But I'm going to say from a practical standpoint, and I understand.	00:29:30
	This may be a court.	00:29:34
	Viewed as a cart before the horse.	00:29:36
	Or otherwise there's no.	00:29:38
	Evidence on this survey that shows that utilities can get to the site.	00:29:41
	And in order to do that, you would have to have a private agreement from one of these property owners out in front.	00:29:46
	To go through their property with water and sewer and gas or whatever is required.	00:29:52
	And so I I think.	00:29:58
	There's some problems with this.	00:30:00
	Yeah. All right. So I think.	00:30:03
	We have a motion to continue this pending.	00:30:05
	Additional information.	00:30:08
	Do we have a second for that?	00:30:09
	I'll second it. All right.	00:30:11
	All those in favor.	00:30:13
	Aye, all right. Motion carries.	00:30:14
	All right, we're going to move on to our.	00:30:18
	Last item.	00:30:22
	Under new business.	00:30:23
	This is a major subdivision preliminary.	00:30:25
	Request Do we have a representative for this project?	00:30:28
	If someone will come forward and.	00:30:40
	If you'll just give your name and address and then add.	00:30:43
	Anything that you'd like to?	00:30:46
	Add here.	00:30:48
	Yeah, my name is Drew Inglesby, representing Ryan Holmes.	00:30:49
	My address is 11911 Miracle Woods Way.	00:30:53
	We're here for our preliminary.	00:30:58
	Approval and review by the Board. We have our engineer record here, Jonathan.	00:31:01
	In our surveyor, Jeff.	00:31:05
	And I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.	00:31:06
	OK.	00:31:12
	From the from the information we have.	00:31:15
	There's an issue about a second.	00:31:18
	Access point for this property.	00:31:21
	And I think there's.	00:31:24
	There's nothing that addresses that.	00:31:25
	Do you have further information on that?	00:31:27
	Sure. Do Jonathan. Our engineers speak to that.	00:31:32
	Hey, good afternoon, Jonathan Hill.	00:31:37
	109 Reddick Ave.	00:31:39
	Yes. So we, we have enough.	00:31:41
	Don't know if they were provided to you, but we have documents from.	00:31:42
	GDOT we've had.	00:31:46
	Extensive conversations with them about getting a second entrance.	00:31:47
	Which they?	00:31:50
	And, you know, equivocally denied.	00:31:51
	They said they would not allow another access.	00:31:52
	They've done the same thing, I think, to the city directly.	00:31:55
	For another project down the street.	00:31:58
	We talked about a ride in, right out.	00:32:01
	They wouldn't go for it. We have.	00:32:03
	Multiple emails that say.	00:32:05
	That they will not allow a second access point.	00:32:07
	So there are.	00:32:10
	Waves through that.	00:32:12
	The the.	00:32:14
	Purpose of the.	00:32:15
	Second entrance is really for life and safety.	00:32:16
	There's traffic studies.	00:32:19
	There's no need for a.	00:32:21
	As far as traffic controls go.	00:32:22
	A second entrance.	00:32:24
	The International Fire Code, Appendix D.	00:32:27
	Has.	00:32:29
	This situation covered.	00:32:30
	It provides a couple of options.	00:32:32
	To do this and address if there is a second entrance needed.	00:32:34
	We have. Excuse me?	00:32:39
	We do have.	00:32:41
	I'm not sure if it's shown or where it's shown.	00:32:43
	It's not shown here, but we do have a second entrance and approval from G dot.	00:32:45
	To utilize the.	00:32:49
	The lift station, there's the access.	00:32:51
	Lift off the lift station just to the.	00:32:53
	Right there. Yep. Yep.	00:32:55
	Where it says.	00:32:57
	Right there. Yep, there's a there's a lift station.	00:32:58
	Yeah, there it is.	00:33:01
	So there's an Access Rd.	00:33:02
	Right there.	00:33:04
	That will come off.	00:33:05
	And provide a.	00:33:07
	Emergency, uh.	00:33:08
	Egress and ingress.	00:33:09
	For the site.	00:33:11
	OK.	00:33:12
	So this is.	00:33:14
	Life safety. This will be a gated.	00:33:15
	Entrance with a knock box.	00:33:18
	We did meet.	00:33:21
	With staff and.	00:33:23
	Specifically, Chief Wagner.	00:33:24
	Who at the time?	00:33:26
	I don't have anything from him but.	00:33:28
	He did say that that was fine with him.	00:33:30
	So that was that's kind of where we.	00:33:35
	Landed with the second entrance we had it we asked for.	00:33:36
	And we were told no.	00:33:40
	A few times.	00:33:42
	I have a question on from the package.	00:33:44
	I haven't raised this as a concern before, but.	00:33:47
	Let me see this is page.	00:33:51
	30 I think of the.	00:33:53
	Happens, it shows.	00:33:55
	The land.	00:33:58
	The type of soil.	00:34:00
	And the purple.	00:34:02
	They indicate is.	00:34:04
	Lonely sand with slopes and the frequently flooded.	00:34:07
	So I'm assuming this whole area frequently.	00:34:12
	Has water collected yet? And when it says frequently flooded. So what you're looking at right there is from the.	00:34:15
	I mean, sorry the.	00:34:21
	I'm trying to remember it's a soul map from.	00:34:24
	USDA.	00:34:27
	That's the site that comes from.	00:34:28
	But there's been extensive.	00:34:30
	And Juanita was the.	00:34:32
	Well, a consultant.	00:34:33
	That's one exhibit of many.	00:34:35
	When they do their due diligence on the evaluation the site.	00:34:37
	The.	00:34:40
	Actual wetland delineation.	00:34:41
	Is buried in here somewhere? No, I wasn't concerned about the wetland. My concern is you already have.	00:34:44
	There's already so much concrete and.	00:34:50
	Impermeable.	00:34:53
	Land in the neighborhood.	00:34:57
	Neighborhood next to you.	00:34:58
	That probably a lot of that drainage is coming from there already, so.	00:35:00
	If you build it up.	00:35:05
	He would possibly flood.	00:35:06
	That area and I'm wondering, you know, because what you're going to.	00:35:08
	You're putting in is going to cover a lot of this land between the roads and the house sites and everything.	00:35:12
	I know you're planning to put in some lakes and things.	00:35:18
	I'm just concerned that this is currently.	00:35:21
	Assisting our.	00:35:23
	Preventing.	00:35:25
	The.	00:35:26
	Property from getting flooded by the water going.	00:35:28
	Onto this property.	00:35:30
	And how you might.	00:35:32
	Be able to mitigate that can.	00:35:33
	Would you mind pulling up the site plan again or the finish line?	00:35:35
	So there's two major, well there look really there's three major drain ways to.	00:35:39
	So.	00:35:47
	It's kind of hard to see. I'm going to try and.	00:35:49
	There's a drainage easement.	00:35:55
	100 foot drainage easement.	00:35:56
	That G dot has an easement over.	00:35:58
	And it works through the South property.	00:36:01
	And and connects into.	00:36:03
	Another drainway that.	00:36:05
	The existing.	00:36:08
	Sugar Mill.	00:36:09
	That runs on the backside.	00:36:11
	Marilee Clark.	00:36:12
	All of that connects down a dark entry Creek.	00:36:14
	So it's you have a good.	00:36:17
	Valid point, but there are drain ways through the property that.	00:36:20
	In theory, it's supposed to drain the property.	00:36:23
	Over the years, tempering.	00:36:27
	You know the property is not managed.	00:36:29
	It's just been sitting.	00:36:32
	So you know, you get these pockets.	00:36:33
	So there will be.	00:36:36
	Drainage improvements done for sure.	00:36:37
	The wetlands will have to.	00:36:39
	I'm sorry the.	00:36:41
	Ponds that are going to be provided for the development.	00:36:42
	Will have to meet a pre post requirement.	00:36:45
	That will be worked through with staff.	00:36:47
	City engineer so the volumetric flow rate leaving that site.	00:36:49
	Cannot be more.	00:36:53
	Than what is leaving the site now?	00:36:55
	Contrary to kind of.	00:36:58
	The the logical way of thinking, right?	00:37:00
	Because of the wetland area when you model the wetland areas.	00:37:03
	As it sits today.	00:37:07
	The more wetland area.	00:37:08
	Actually, the more runoff.	00:37:09
	You know you have because a wetland doesn't infiltrate.	00:37:11
	It just sheds.	00:37:13
	So every every drop of rain, in theory.	00:37:15
	That hits that ground, isn't going into the ground.	00:37:17
	Tend to run off.	00:37:20
	So that actually.	00:37:21
	Doesn't lend itself to.	00:37:24
	A better site that is, you know.	00:37:28
	Parking and.	00:37:32
	Having all the.	00:37:33
	No run off.	00:37:34
	It actually creates more runoff with more wetlands, so.	00:37:36
	Well, they're proposing some.	00:37:39
	Wetland impacts.	00:37:41
	That's necessary for the development.	00:37:43
	To happen.	00:37:44
	Just because it's scattered.	00:37:46
	You know, it's very scattered wetlands throughout the property.	00:37:47
	But yeah, we it will all be.	00:37:51
	Have to be managed and we have.	00:37:53
	You know pre and post development requirements to meet for the runoffs.	00:37:54
	Specifically, uh.	00:37:58
	And we have drainways to manage and maintain.	00:37:59
	Do we have other questions from?	00:38:03
	Commission members that we can turn to Jamie and let her do her presentation.	00:38:05
	Your access to Saint Mary's Road.	00:38:10
	You also have can you go and turn left also? Yes, Sir. Yeah, there there's a median cut.	00:38:13
	At the main entrance.	00:38:18
	So that is.	00:38:19
	Partly why you know, I don't. I don't know the reasoning.	00:38:21
	To be honest.	00:38:24
	It is a.	00:38:25
	Limited Access Rd.	00:38:26
	And that gnot has and they have you gain permission.	00:38:29
	To be able to cross it, there's already, there's actually already a meeting cut right there.	00:38:32
	So it's already, it's paid left turn lane, everything is there. We don't have to do any improvements really inside the right of	00:38:36
	way.	00:38:39
	To get in and out of that property at that location.	00:38:42
	It's the secondary point where we ask for right in, right out.	00:38:45
	Or another median cut.	00:38:49
	And they said.	00:38:50
	No, you're not going to get it.	00:38:52
	That that interest was is supposedly mixed with drive.	00:38:54
	From Coleraine roll over by Marilee Clark up railroad track.	00:39:00
	Actually, a crossroad could go soon.	00:39:07
	Other site had come up by the hospital.	00:39:09
	All right. All right. So I'm going to suggest we turn things over to Jamie.	00:39:13
	The city and then we'll come back to.	00:39:19
	Discussion and public comment.	00:39:21
	Thank you, gentlemen.	00:39:23
	OK, thank you. Before the Commission this evening is a major subdivision or preliminary plant.	00:39:24
	On behalf of Ryan Homes.	00:39:31
	From 4 Bay City Construction.	00:39:34
	Request a preliminary plat for a major subdivision of Parcels 121021.	00:39:37
	121021.	00:39:42
	121021C.	00:39:44
	And 134029.	00:39:46
	So if you remember, this was our first.	00:39:49
	A conceptual plan.	00:39:53
	That came before us, after our.	00:39:55
	A new subdivision ordinance.	00:39:58
	As you see in the staff memo, there are some minor.	00:40:01
	Omissions from the preliminary.	00:40:05
	One of the things that we were hoping for in our new subdivision ordinance is that.	00:40:08
	The amenity spaces would be further detailed, so we had talked about them.	00:40:12
	In the conceptual plat.	00:40:17
	We had been shown.	00:40:19
	Sort of a proposal for what types of amenities might be there.	00:40:20
	You know, this is our first one out of the gate, so I get that we're not quite there yet, but.	00:40:25
	We would like to see in future more detail.	00:40:30
	On those amenity packages, because that was really.	00:40:33
	Kind of one of our sticking points about.	00:40:36
	Whether or not the development was coming with appropriate amenities.	00:40:39
	Another sort of.	00:40:44
	Addition that I want us to think about a little bit.	00:40:46
	Is we we also ask in the.	00:40:49
	In the preliminary plat that we have a more substantial landscape plan.	00:40:53
	So that is something that I do not feel has been fully submitted at this time.	00:40:58
	But in your.	00:41:04
	In the Staffs review of the application.	00:41:05
	We're not.	00:41:09
	Expressing any concerns about those.	00:41:11
	There's two items that we're expressing concerns about.	00:41:14
	One is strictly based on section 86.	00:41:18
	10.	00:41:22
	No, I'm sorry.	00:41:24
	86-32 of the subdivision ordinance.	00:41:25
	There is this comment about egress and ingress.	00:41:28
	So the directly from the ordinance every major subdivision will endeavor.	00:41:32
	To have a minimum of two streets to ingress and egress.	00:41:37
	Into and out of the subdivision.	00:41:40
	Here's the catch. The Planning Commission.	00:41:42
	May approve a variance.	00:41:45
	To this requirement.	00:41:47
	When needing certain specifications so I want to take some time to digest.	00:41:49
	The two traffic studies.	00:41:55
	That were done for this development.	00:41:57
	There were two that were submitted, one had two entrances.	00:42:00
	And the other had one entrance.	00:42:04
	I asked our city engineer to do.	00:42:07
	Kind of a Cliff notes for me because I'm not a traffic engineer to sort of understand.	00:42:09
	And essentially, in looking at the two different studies, there's really no difference.	00:42:15
	At the intersection with Saint Mary's Road between.	00:42:21
	Two entrances and one entrance. There's slightly more.	00:42:24
	Turns that would be happening in the one entrance versus the two entrance.	00:42:27
	Entrances.	00:42:32
	However.	00:42:33
	In the subdivisions that we have.	00:42:35
	In place.	00:42:38
	That have one way.	00:42:40
	To get out.	00:42:41
	There are major concerns just around.	00:42:42
	Navigating.	00:42:46
	Within the development, which the traffic study did not look at, it did not look at internal navigation, it looked at the	00:42:47
	intersection.	00:42:51
	And we are currently negotiating.	00:42:55
	Access agreements with existing.	00:42:58
	Developments and where we're seeing that most prominently right now.	00:43:01
	Is in Osprey Cove.	00:43:05
	With the Exit 1 development.	00:43:07
	And the.	00:43:09
	Community members in the sanctuary.	00:43:10
	Are looking for.	00:43:12
	An alternative access point.	00:43:14
	And so.	00:43:16
	In a way, these emergency entrances do.	00:43:17
	The proposed emergency entrance does address this.	00:43:23
	But not wholly, because that would be a time for.	00:43:26
	Emergency response.	00:43:30
	To get in and out if.	00:43:31
	Something was closed.	00:43:33
	But for residents themselves?	00:43:34
	On a on an everyday basis.	00:43:36
	This would not be the case.	00:43:39
	So life safety as as Mr. Mcdeele.	00:43:41
	Suggested.	00:43:44
	You know the the Fire Chief.	00:43:46
	May be satisfied with this, but from a planning perspective.	00:43:48
	We feel that that.	00:43:53
	Is an area of concern.	00:43:54
	And I think that.	00:43:56
	You know, we've seen the the work that we've done on Exit 1.	00:43:59
	And through the fence access with Georgia dot to make a new cut.	00:44:03
	Onto Saint Mary's Road.	00:44:08
	Is very costly.	00:44:09
	And it takes a lot of time.	00:44:11
	And we have had several discussions, not just with.	00:44:13
	Taylor Morrison and ETM and the master planning.	00:44:16
	Of exit 1.	00:44:19
	But also the Klotz group across the.	00:44:21
	Across Saint Mary's Road.	00:44:23
	From this proposed development.	00:44:25
	Has negotiated through the fence access to the tune of $550,000.	00:44:27
	For their supplemental entrance so.	00:44:33
	I think from Staffs perspective.	00:44:36
	What was proposed?	00:44:39
	To Georgia dot.	00:44:41
	Was not the full breadth of what is possible here.	00:44:43
	For two entrances.	00:44:46
	So that's one of our areas of concern.	00:44:48
	And again.	00:44:51
	Per the subdivision ordinance.	00:44:52
	You have the authority.	00:44:54
	To waive that requirement. But it is.	00:44:56
	A requirement.	00:44:58
	The next thing that I want to talk about is that.	00:45:00
	This preliminary platform.	00:45:03
	Application.	00:45:05
	Came into us before.	00:45:07
	The moratorium.	00:45:09
	Was put in place.	00:45:10
	And it's before you now because it came in.	00:45:12
	Before the moratorium.	00:45:16
	But Staffs concerns still.	00:45:17
	Stand, and that concern stems from.	00:45:20
	When we wrote rewrote the subdivision ordinance.	00:45:24
	We included a set of criteria.	00:45:27
	In Section 86-4.	00:45:30
	In which we talk about.	00:45:33
	Certain elements that would give us some more concrete.	00:45:35
	Standing and how we were assessing new development.	00:45:40
	And, umm.	00:45:44
	Purpose number six.	00:45:46
	Talks about the adequacy of public infrastructure.	00:45:48
	The idea here is that.	00:45:52
	Whether the site is adequately served by existing or proposed infrastructure, including.	00:45:54
	Roadways, waters, sanitary sewer and stormwater systems.	00:46:00
	Staff during this moratorium, the moratorium is in place so that we can have.	00:46:04
	A more concrete understanding.	00:46:09
	Of our sewer.	00:46:13
	Collection system capacity.	00:46:14
	We have not arrived.	00:46:17
	At that concrete understanding.	00:46:19
	Yet.	00:46:21
	So that's why the moratorium is in place.	00:46:22
	And I am unable.	00:46:25
	Staff is unable.	00:46:27
	To fully render a decision about the adequacy of that public infrastructure.	00:46:29
	So for those two reasons, the ingress and the egress which.	00:46:34
	You have the authority to waive if you should choose.	00:46:37
	And that lack of.	00:46:40
	Or lack of understanding on the adequacy of the public infrastructure.	00:46:44
	Staff has recommended denial of this.	00:46:49
	Preliminary plan.	00:46:52
	And those are the two criteria that we would use to.	00:46:54
	Support the denial.	00:46:57
	All right, is that?	00:47:02
	You're you're done.	00:47:03
	I'm done all right.	00:47:05
	So before we go to.	00:47:07
	Public comment Do we have any?	00:47:08
	Further discussion.	00:47:10
	Let's go ahead and go to public comment and.	00:47:14
	Handle that all right.	00:47:17
	So with that, I'm going to open this up.	00:47:18
	Or public comment if you'd like to comment on this item.	00:47:20
	If you'll come forward to the podium, give your name and address and then anything you'd like to add to this.	00:47:24
	All right. I think I see no movement.	00:47:33
	So I'm going to presume that we can close the public comment period on this.	00:47:37
	Do we have further discussion?	00:47:43
	Amongst members or do we have?	00:47:45
	A motion for this item, I'll make a motion.	00:47:48
	Was 9 based on stats.	00:47:52
	Recommendations.	00:47:56
	All right. Do I have a second for that?	00:47:57
	Second, all right.	00:48:00
	All those in favor, aye.	00:48:01
	All right, that.	00:48:03
	Ends are items on our agenda.	00:48:05
	I'll just mention we had a working session earlier.	00:48:10
	We have some materials to take a look at.	00:48:13
	And Dina has expressed that she would be happy to have.	00:48:16
	Comments back from us. So I'm hoping that folks will try to work that into your schedules.	00:48:19
	Jamie, anything else you want to add before we adjourn?	00:48:26
	No, I think we're ready. I mean, potentially we should if you'd like to schedule another working session.	00:48:30
	For before the November meeting.	00:48:38
	Do you do you feel like that gives you enough time?	00:48:40
	OK.	00:48:44
	All right. Thank you. So you'll follow up with us on that and OK.	00:48:46
	All right. With that, I think we're ready for a motion to adjourn.	00:48:50
	So move. Do I have a second? Second. All right, all those in favor, aye.	00:48:55
	Meeting is adjourned.	00:49:01

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Document list

Documents available for this event
	Document Name	Document type
	Charles Landing - Conceptual Plat	General Document
	Oscar Oaks - Preliminary Plat	General Document
	Gutowski - Reverse Subdivision - S39A 010	General Document
	Ahamed - Rezoning - 135 107A	General Document

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Transcript

Event transcript
	In 1952.	00:00:00
	One word.	00:00:24
	Thank you.	00:00:29
	Jamie, I have 5:30. Are you guys?	00:01:34
	Ready. OK.	00:01:37
	Going to call to order our Planning Commission meeting.	00:01:40
	Our first order of business is a approval.	00:01:43
	Of the minutes from our last meeting.	00:01:47
	Are there any additions or edits that members have?	00:01:49
	I'll make a motion to approve the minute. All right, we have a motion to approve. Do we have a second?	00:01:53
	All right, all those in favor.	00:01:58
	Alright, minutes have been.	00:02:00
	Approved.	00:02:02
	Our second item is approval of the agenda, and we do have some changes here.	00:02:04
	So under old business?	00:02:09
	Item number one has been tabled until next month.	00:02:12
	And item number 2 has been tabled until the moratorium.	00:02:15
	Has ended.	00:02:20
	For that, so that we don't know when that will be coming back.	00:02:22
	Under new business.	00:02:26
	Number The 1st special use permit item number.	00:02:30
	One has been withdrawn.	00:02:33
	By the applicant.	00:02:35
	So we're going to, once these are approved, we're going to be starting with items.	00:02:37
	Two and three.	00:02:41
	Under new business.	00:02:42
	I would say it's going to be a shorter meeting, but that would be unlucky to say that out loud so.	00:02:44
	All right. Any other changes that need to be made? Do we have a motion to approve the? All right.	00:02:50
	Do we have a second?	00:02:58
	All those in favor, aye.	00:02:59
	All right, revised agenda has been approved.	00:03:01
	So with that.	00:03:05
	We have no old business. We're going to start under new business.	00:03:06
	With item 2.	00:03:10
	This is a rezoning request.	00:03:12
	Do we have a a representative?	00:03:14
	For this if you want to provide any comment on this.	00:03:17
	And so if you want to, we have people that are listening.	00:03:23
	In and watching this so if you want to step to the microphone.	00:03:26
	If you'll give your name and address and then any comment that you want to add with this.	00:03:31
	What you might want folks to know.	00:03:37
	And then start with good evening.	00:03:39
	My name is Ruben.	00:03:42
	I am a local civil engineer.	00:03:46
	And I have entertained.	00:03:49
	By Missus Hammett.	00:03:52
	In the installing process.	00:03:54
	She owns a.	00:03:57
	A leftover partial.	00:03:58
	Triangular shape.	00:04:02
	And he has the.	00:04:04
	The power line that takes.	00:04:06
	Two stories of the property.	00:04:08
	In the remaining piece.	00:04:11
	She would like to place a trailer for her to live with her family.	00:04:14
	And in order to do that.	00:04:18
	We need to change.	00:04:20
	The zoning from R5.	00:04:22
	To MH.	00:04:24
	And I have toast the problem.	00:04:27
	When I talked to the developer.	00:04:30
	And and so on.	00:04:32
	And it seems that everything is in order for the way I see it.	00:04:35
	So if you have any questions please.	00:04:39
	Do so.	00:04:41
	I just have a question.	00:04:42
	How are you planning to get to that piece of property?	00:04:44
	All right, the way I have found out, there are two ways to get there.	00:04:47
	There is the partial a.	00:04:52
	Which was left by the developer.	00:04:55
	Because he was.	00:04:58
	Reviewing an access.	00:04:59
	To a proper next door.	00:05:01
	OK, that's partially.	00:05:03
	Now also if.	00:05:04
	When we we hire a surveyor to do.	00:05:07
	It's already properly.	00:05:10
	And he found that.	00:05:12
	Ah, as part of the.	00:05:14
	Well then, right away.	00:05:17
	Of Royal of Georgia Power.	00:05:19
	There is a 20 foot.	00:05:22
	Axis that goes all the way.	00:05:24
	The main Rd.	00:05:27
	Good.	00:05:30
	All the way to.	00:05:34
	It's over on the way to Dolphins, Yeah.	00:05:35
	It is. It is growing with vegetation, but.	00:05:38
	You need to be cleared up and we want to do so, so they would.	00:05:42
	What about from the other side?	00:05:46
	Can you pull it down?	00:05:49
	There's another St. there, isn't there?	00:05:51
	Where there's a lot, they said cul-de-sac.	00:05:53
	Oh, that's part of the base. OK, so that would be the only way, yeah.	00:05:56
	They said cul-de-sac from the other side.	00:06:00
	And then there is the partial a as I mentioned before.	00:06:03
	So which which way do they think they're going to come in through part?	00:06:07
	Parcel A or from Douglas.	00:06:10
	Well, you know, we humans usually go the easiest way, so right now we're probably going to go over the cul-de-sac.	00:06:14
	Go to parcel A.	00:06:22
	And Cont.	00:06:23
	Go to the right away.	00:06:24
	If that becomes inconvenient.	00:06:26
	Then we will go from Douglas, OK.	00:06:29
	All the way along the.	00:06:32
	The ride away, OK.	00:06:34
	So I think that.	00:06:37
	Fits with what we've got in this.	00:06:38
	Is all the property where it will rest?	00:06:42
	Cleared at the moment or is it back in?	00:06:45
	Part of it in the woods behind thee.	00:06:47
	House, it is about half clear.	00:06:49
	There's there's no, no, no trees, but there's vegetation was 4 foot high at this point.	00:06:52
	But we haven't touched it.	00:06:58
	Because we don't want to get in trouble, but we won't like to do so.	00:07:00
	So would you clear that whole section out? Yeah.	00:07:04
	Although Georgia Power is supposed to take care of that but.	00:07:08
	You know, we want that to be cleared up.	00:07:11
	OK. All right. Jamie, have you received any comments on?	00:07:14
	At all? No.	00:07:18
	Go ahead.	00:07:22
	I got water too.	00:07:24
	How do you how do you get that to the?	00:07:27
	Well, there's a.	00:07:31
	There's water on the House. 175 next one.	00:07:33
	And it's water there.	00:07:37
	Of course we will object to our septic tank if that's allowed in.	00:07:41
	I mean, we haven't come to that point yet because I've.	00:07:48
	Part of it or the approval for the actual location?	00:07:50
	Walking home.	00:07:55
	OK, OK.	00:07:58
	Other questions from the Commissioner. We can go to Jamie for her presentation.	00:08:00
	Thank you. Well.	00:08:06
	We'll turn it over to the city at this point and then we might come back to you for additional questions. Thank you.	00:08:07
	All right, Thank you. I.	00:08:15
	This isn't working is it?	00:08:17
	No, it is.	00:08:19
	I'll speak loudly.	00:08:22
	OK, before you this evening under new business is a rezoning Mr. Ruben Gomez on behalf of.	00:08:23
	Maria Ahmed.	00:08:30
	Requests a rezoning of tax parcel 135017A.	00:08:32
	From R5.	00:08:37
	To manufactured housing or MH.	00:08:38
	The time and location is known as the lot adjacent to the northeast corner of the old Jefferson Estates subdivision.	00:08:41
	Similarly to some of the questions that the Commission has had.	00:08:48
	Staff also had questions about access and how you intend to access and now that has been made more clear.	00:08:51
	We do have record of the easement.	00:08:58
	To get to your comment, Commissioner King.	00:09:01
	At this point in time, this is a rezoning, not.	00:09:05
	Not a We're not creating this lot. This lot was already created.	00:09:09
	So when?	00:09:14
	Miss Ahmed goes to site her home.	00:09:16
	There will be a site plan application and part of that site plan application will require.	00:09:18
	The connecting to utilities and that will be reviewed by our city engineer.	00:09:23
	I don't know why I'm talking in this.	00:09:28
	Furthermore, so staff has.	00:09:32
	Reviewed this application based on our rezoning criteria.	00:09:35
	And this is articulated for you, Commissioners.	00:09:40
	Through your staff memos.	00:09:44
	This is not something that.	00:09:48
	Result in spot zoning this is.	00:09:50
	A question that has come up.	00:09:52
	For us before.	00:09:54
	On the Commission.	00:09:55
	The use is still single family residential.	00:09:56
	The idea is that the type of structure.	00:10:00
	That is going to be placed.	00:10:03
	Requires the manufactured housing zoning.	00:10:05
	So staff does not consider this spot zoning this is this is still.	00:10:07
	Residential single family use.	00:10:12
	The land, as was said, is directly adjacent to the base.	00:10:15
	Our comprehensive plan has this.	00:10:21
	Future land use and development to be residential, both single family and multifamily.	00:10:24
	Staff recommends approval of this rezoning.	00:10:32
	And any future development would follow the manufactured housing standard.	00:10:35
	Go ahead, Jamie. Are there any requirements?	00:10:44
	In that.	00:10:47
	Neighborhood as far as.	00:10:47
	The distance between.	00:10:49
	Homes or setbacks or.	00:10:50
	I want to look at it.	00:10:55
	It seemed like a.	00:10:56
	I couldn't.	00:10:58
	Quite picture looking at it.	00:10:58
	Where this would sit?	00:11:00
	Or it would be really close to the other house that I.	00:11:02
	You couldn't tell from the street.	00:11:05
	How much land went back into the what's?	00:11:07
	The non.	00:11:10
	Grass area.	00:11:12
	So what I'll do is I'll try to show that.	00:11:15
	On this.	00:11:18
	Aerial image.	00:11:20
	So what is being highlighted if you can see it? The blue triangle?	00:11:21
	Is the subject parcel?	00:11:26
	If you direct your attention to this part of your packet.	00:11:29
	You'll see that the.	00:11:33
	Southwesterly border there.	00:11:36
	Behind the the existing housing.	00:11:40
	They're proposing a 20 foot set that.	00:11:43
	So the OK, I'm sorry, I should have picked that up.	00:11:46
	And I think per.	00:11:49
	This site plan it seems as though the.	00:11:51
	The front.	00:11:53
	The lab will almost Orient itself like this.	00:11:55
	And that the front of the house.	00:11:59
	Will be towards the easement.	00:12:01
	Towards the cleared land.	00:12:03
	So, Jamie, I had a question on this SO.	00:12:12
	Because of the zoning on this.	00:12:16
	I read that as if that would allow.	00:12:20
	More than one unit.	00:12:22
	To be placed.	00:12:24
	On this lot.	00:12:25
	Do we actually have any?	00:12:28
	Restriction on this, so it's proposed as.	00:12:31
	One unit is being.	00:12:34
	Placed but based on the size.	00:12:36
	Of the.	00:12:38
	Plot with their.	00:12:39
	By approving this with multi with manufactured housing zoning.	00:12:41
	Since it's not an R1.	00:12:46
	With a special use permit, would it allow?	00:12:49
	Multiple units to be placed there.	00:12:52
	My first response is no.	00:12:56
	I'm trying to remember.	00:12:59
	In the MH zoning, A manufactured housing.	00:13:01
	Park requires a certain minimum square footage. Do you remember what it is?	00:13:03
	I want to say like 5 acres.	00:13:08
	Give me a minute.	00:13:11
	We'll get there.	00:13:12
	And I know that's not what they're requesting, but the.	00:13:20
	The zoning that we apply will live beyond.	00:13:23
	May I say something if you feel comfortable?	00:13:26
	We will accept the institution of 1 unit.	00:13:31
	As long as the case.	00:13:35
	OK.	00:13:36
	At least just confirmed that per the manufactured housing zoning.	00:13:39
	A manufactured housing park, which would mean.	00:13:44
	More than one unit.	00:13:47
	Would have to have 4 acres all right. So by definition we don't have to be concerned about.	00:13:48
	Putting some kind of limitation.	00:13:54
	OK.	00:13:56
	And then I thought in the past discussions and I know that we've.	00:13:56
	Had many discussions about this.	00:14:00
	I thought that we had come to a.	00:14:03
	Sort of agreement of looking at what the.	00:14:07
	General whether that was a type.	00:14:11
	Of housing that was in that general area.	00:14:13
	Or not as part of our approval.	00:14:16
	Process on this and.	00:14:18
	My read on that was that.	00:14:20
	That's not part of.	00:14:22
	Directly in this.	00:14:24
	Area.	00:14:26
	So it seemed inconsistent with how we.	00:14:30
	Have in the past.	00:14:33
	Looked at things.	00:14:35
	Yeah, Yeah, I tend to agree with that assessment.	00:14:40
	There's further down.	00:14:51
	On Douglas there are some.	00:14:52
	Manufactured units back in they're particularly.	00:14:55
	Beyond where the.	00:14:58
	You know new development has happened.	00:15:00
	But it's not.	00:15:04
	Really in I I didn't see that as.	00:15:05
	Being close enough to be sort of a reference point on that.	00:15:09
	I think the only thing that I can.	00:15:19
	Really. Say.	00:15:21
	About that is that I do feel as though.	00:15:25
	In the past when there was.	00:15:28
	A significant pushback from the public.	00:15:32
	We talked about how.	00:15:35
	That housing typology is not in the neighborhood.	00:15:38
	But if we're looking at our.	00:15:43
	Rezoning criteria specifically.	00:15:46
	I would not call this an illogical extension of surrounding uses.	00:15:51
	Because the surrounding uses are single family.	00:15:56
	Presidential.	00:16:00
	But this is it's currently our 5, right? Correct. So it could be.	00:16:01
	Duplexer A triplexer? It could be again.	00:16:06
	That might even besides a single family home.	00:16:11
	And I'm assuming that neighborhood is is owned the same way.	00:16:16
	Our fives, it is the surrounding neighborhood is our 5.	00:16:19
	So there's a.	00:16:24
	Fair amount of flexibility already in the R5.	00:16:26
	All right, other questions from our comments.	00:16:34
	Commission members.	00:16:37
	Yes, let me just.	00:16:39
	I I see on the survey.	00:16:41
	I was done by Roger Bennett.	00:16:43
	The Georgia Power easement and the 20 foot.	00:16:45
	Access easement.	00:16:48
	If you don't have any of the ease of documentation.	00:16:50
	That shows.	00:16:53
	A permanent access to this.	00:16:56
	One anchor.	00:16:58
	Well, somebody should if it exists, but.	00:17:01
	I would think that we would want to see.	00:17:05
	Proof that.	00:17:08
	This is a developable lot.	00:17:09
	With Open Access, I've never seen Georgia Power.	00:17:11
	There's obviously going to be a between an access easement and the Georgia Power easement.	00:17:16
	One of them is going to be senior to the other.	00:17:23
	And I suspect the Georgia Power region looks going to be senior, too.	00:17:26
	The excess easement.	00:17:29
	Which means it's not. It's subject to.	00:17:31
	I've never seen Georgia Power.	00:17:34
	Issue a private easement on.	00:17:36
	On their property that the intent is to have access to.	00:17:38
	Maintain their equipment.	00:17:43
	But if Georgia Power, otherwise it'd be a license, I guess they could grant.	00:17:45
	But I I would want to see documentation.	00:17:48
	That there is access from one place or another.	00:17:51
	That.	00:17:55
	This proposed site benefits from or.	00:17:56
	Or my thinking is I don't think we should be.	00:17:59
	Making any zoning decisions unless it's a buildable lot.	00:18:02
	Regardless of the use.	00:18:07
	Isn't it already zoned as a buildable lot?	00:18:09
	Well, it has zoning displaystone, but there's no it.	00:18:12
	Evidence for documentation that is legal access.	00:18:15
	Forget about utilities.	00:18:19
	You know you'd have to have an agreement with a private party to run through their yard or.	00:18:20
	Or with utilities from the street or the cul-de-sac.	00:18:24
	Just because a lot in front of you has utility access.	00:18:28
	Doesn't mean you do behind it.	00:18:32
	And you'd have to go through somebody else's property to get to it.	00:18:33
	You need an agreement with that property owner.	00:18:36
	Yes. So I mean, there's no evidence that it's got access to utilities.	00:18:39
	Well, but, but, you know, we have to go one step at a time.	00:18:44
	You want me to come with the reasoning and have all these permits at hand?	00:18:48
	That's not logical.	00:18:52
	At least not in my view.	00:18:53
	OK, now let me say something else.	00:18:55
	What you have there right now?	00:18:58
	Is an eyesore.	00:19:00
	That will continue to be that way because.	00:19:02
	That lot is almost useless.	00:19:05
	Well, that's my point.	00:19:09
	Completely.	00:19:10
	Well, so you prefer to have that eyesore over there?	00:19:11
	And someone to come and do a project that gets built without that, without utilities or, or access. Yes, well, we're going to have	00:19:15
	a septic tank on a will.	00:19:20
	If you allow it.	00:19:25
	You need to apply, you need to investigate that, but.	00:19:27
	And provide evidence that you can get approval for a septic tank with your application.	00:19:29
	But isn't that in the next step?	00:19:35
	Well, that's what I'm saying. It appears that it's not.	00:19:37
	Developable site as it's presented.	00:19:41
	And unless.	00:19:43
	They've got documentation the easement would have you could obtain for.	00:19:45
	Very little work.	00:19:49
	But we don't even have an easement that shows from Georgia Power, from anybody else that shows access to this site.	00:19:51
	And you know.	00:19:58
	I just think it should be.	00:20:00
	Except the city has already approved it as a residential area. So at this point in time.	00:20:02
	When they're asking for a rezoning, I think that might be at the next step.	00:20:08
	I'm not inclined to support it. OK.	00:20:14
	That was readily rezoned.	00:20:16
	With development it borders.	00:20:19
	At one time.	00:20:22
	All that was one piece of property.	00:20:23
	And that was all zone.	00:20:26
	At one time, this wasn't zoned separately.	00:20:27
	Anything else?	00:20:31
	So it's sort of an uneconomic remnant.	00:20:33
	Will be that the builder the?	00:20:35
	Develop the development in front of it.	00:20:38
	Chose not to develop that lot.	00:20:41
	Because there's no access to it. Or yes.	00:20:45
	What are you telling us?	00:20:49
	So, Jamie, is there a.	00:20:53
	Precedent here.	00:20:55
	I seems like we have a valid.	00:20:57
	Concern. I mean, there is a precedent, one that.	00:21:00
	I would the first one I would go to is that this is a lot of record.	00:21:03
	This is a real piece of property.	00:21:08
	So for us to say that this is unbuildable is not our decision to make.	00:21:10
	So that would be my first statement.	00:21:15
	And that would be addressed in.	00:21:17
	That would be interesting when one goes to Bill.	00:21:19
	Yep. And then?	00:21:22
	Going further.	00:21:24
	Engagement coming out to cul-de-sac going.	00:21:25
	Was designated to plant.	00:21:29
	And that development?	00:21:31
	For the two properties.	00:21:33
	Right across Georgia Power East.	00:21:36
	I I do hear what you're saying about the easement and I think.	00:21:41
	Staff was going.	00:21:44
	Per the Commission survey, there is a an annotation here of a 20 foot access easement, but no record as to who is the beneficiary	00:21:46
	of that. Easy.	00:21:51
	I I can't argue that.	00:21:57
	And it wouldn't. It would basically would be very easy to produce a copy of it.	00:22:00
	Even if you went to the courthouse?	00:22:04
	Make a copy of it.	00:22:06
	I would think this would be something you all would want.	00:22:08
	Find out.	00:22:11
	Because you might get the point where you start doing things and spending money.	00:22:12
	And finding out you can't get any power, he's not going to do that till it's rezoned.	00:22:16
	Well, to go through the workflow is going, yeah.	00:22:19
	If we approve it.	00:22:22
	Yeah, umm.	00:22:23
	So that he can go and then you can go and find out if you can do it.	00:22:24
	Yeah, because you may end up.	00:22:28
	Not being a.	00:22:31
	Able to get.	00:22:32
	Utilities.	00:22:33
	Well, that's a.	00:22:35
	Opinion, but remember.	00:22:38
	Georgia Power does not own that.	00:22:40
	Properly we do.	00:22:42
	All right, so I can I can go on and ask.	00:22:45
	Georgia Power to divorce a document saying that we.	00:22:49
	Use that, but we're reversing over here.	00:22:52
	The horses against the car.	00:22:57
	We own that.	00:22:59
	Right away.	00:23:01
	It's not Georgia Powerful.	00:23:02
	You know they are taking 2/3 or they are properly.	00:23:05
	But without it.	00:23:08
	An easement that's an easement of record. You know, you can go to, you go to Camden County and get a copy of it if you are.	00:23:10
	The beneficiary of that easement? It would be easy to locate.	00:23:17
	You say, well, I will have to be the beneficiary.	00:23:20
	It's a instrument.	00:23:23
	You know the surveyor.	00:23:24
	Took the responsibility.	00:23:26
	On doing that and put it on his.	00:23:29
	That does an oxygen.	00:23:32
	It is on his ground, that surreal.	00:23:34
	Did that so now.	00:23:37
	You want to put that responsibility on me, but it is on the survey.	00:23:40
	Absolutely.	00:23:43
	Yeah, it should be on you.	00:23:44
	Did you own the property record?	00:23:47
	Or y'all do?	00:23:49
	Yeah. What are the others here?	00:23:51
	Is the point I'm trying to make is I don't know that this?	00:23:52
	Directly relates to the issue in front of us.	00:23:56
	I'd like to move. We approve your.	00:23:59
	But I think, I think we have to.	00:24:06
	Allow, you know, we have to talk about improving this first and then all of that other stuff has to be done after that.	00:24:09
	OK, so let's.	00:24:16
	Pause the discussion.	00:24:18
	Do public comment on this and then come back to OK.	00:24:20
	Thank you. All right, so with that, I'm going to open up public comment on this item.	00:24:23
	If you'd like to make a comment if you'll come forward.	00:24:28
	Give your name and address and then any comment that you'd like to provide.	00:24:32
	All right. I'm not really seeing any movement here.	00:24:39
	So I'm going to go ahead and.	00:24:44
	Close public comment.	00:24:46
	Assuming that we don't have anyone that wants to.	00:24:48
	Give a comment at this point.	00:24:51
	All right, so that brings us back.	00:24:53
	To our discussion, there was a short pause.	00:24:56
	To try to figure out what to do with this.	00:25:00
	And I think.	00:25:03
	Do we want further discussion?	00:25:05
	I think Dan wants to make a motion.	00:25:07
	But I want to make sure that.	00:25:10
	Folks have had a chance to.	00:25:12
	I I know where I stand. Yeah, OK.	00:25:14
	All right.	00:25:18
	I moved to approve.	00:25:20
	The I don't know what's called the article.	00:25:24
	With the rezoning, the rezoning proposal.	00:25:27
	And encourage you to find out more.	00:25:31
	About.	00:25:33
	Your ability to build on it.	00:25:34
	But you have the permission.	00:25:36
	Of this group.	00:25:38
	But you may not have permission further on.	00:25:39
	Is that fair to say?	00:25:42
	OK. Do we have a second for that amount? Second.	00:25:45
	All right, all those in favor, aye?	00:25:48
	All right. I think I heard 2. So we don't have a majority here.	00:25:52
	So that motion has failed.	00:25:57
	Do we have a another motion? An alternative?	00:26:00
	Motion on this.	00:26:03
	I move with decline.	00:26:07
	Based on the conversation we've had.	00:26:08
	Without any further.	00:26:11
	OK. And.	00:26:12
	Jamie, I just want to clarify, do we have?	00:26:15
	An option here.	00:26:17
	Of tabling and because I think your concern is.	00:26:19
	You want a copy of the easement? Is that to the client's benefit? I think to take, yeah. My recommendation would be that we don't	00:26:24
	deny it, because if we deny, we need to give a.	00:26:29
	A basis for that denial.	00:26:34
	I think.	00:26:36
	The opportunity to just.	00:26:37
	What is the word I want to use?	00:26:42
	Confirm.	00:26:45
	The surveyors notation of an access easement.	00:26:46
	Through the legal.	00:26:50
	Document would be.	00:26:52
	Something that we could ask the applicant to do.	00:26:54
	Over the course of the next month.	00:26:57
	In preparation for.	00:26:59
	The November meeting.	00:27:02
	So that would be not a tabling, Forgive me. That's a continuation.	00:27:03
	OK, I would add to that and this is.	00:27:06
	I don't. We don't have to do anymore discussion about it.	00:27:09
	But I.	00:27:13
	Similar to Leslie's comment earlier.	00:27:16
	I don't view this as a.	00:27:18
	As a consistent extension of the uses of the property around it.	00:27:20
	If it were a single family dwelling.	00:27:25
	Or a one to five unit dwelling.	00:27:27
	I would agree. I would agree that it's consistent.	00:27:30
	And if it were more consistent, we'd probably.	00:27:35
	The the proposed views should would be.	00:27:38
	Covered within the.	00:27:41
	Or $1.00 or five something.	00:27:42
	So I think there's more than one reason, but I would probably agree that it may be.	00:27:45
	I may be more inclined.	00:27:50
	To approve that if there were.	00:27:52
	Clear evidence of.	00:27:54
	Access Utilities.	00:27:56
	Clear access. It was a buildable lot, in other words, Basically, yeah. And somebody should at least read the easement.	00:27:58
	Surveyor did. They should.	00:28:04
	Add a notation.	00:28:06
	On a survey that said.	00:28:07
	What is his notation said is that no public documentation provided.	00:28:09
	I think that was the case. Let me read it real quick.	00:28:14
	The survey was performed without the benefit of a formal title review.	00:28:17
	Which means I don't know the surveyor looked at it.	00:28:22
	Well, that's just a question. So I.	00:28:25
	I think I kind of interrupted you when you were trying to start to make a motion. You want to kind of.	00:28:27
	Rev.	00:28:33
	You want you.	00:28:34
	Postpone it.	00:28:36
	Is that your turn, Jamie?	00:28:38
	Continue. Continue.	00:28:39
	Or not.	00:28:43
	I'll second that. Well, you can second that we need a.	00:28:47
	A motion on that.	00:28:53
	Given that there's no.	00:28:54
	Member of the public or the neighborhood or anybody providing here this present here today.	00:28:56
	Voicing any opposition to it.	00:29:03
	I would propose that we.	00:29:06
	Continue it.	00:29:09
	OK.	00:29:11
	To a later date where there can be some supplemental information.	00:29:14
	OK to demonstrate that the site is.	00:29:18
	May be developed for any use.	00:29:21
	Access easement.	00:29:23
	The access easement.	00:29:26
	I agree with you. I I don't.	00:29:28
	But I'm going to say from a practical standpoint, and I understand.	00:29:30
	This may be a court.	00:29:34
	Viewed as a cart before the horse.	00:29:36
	Or otherwise there's no.	00:29:38
	Evidence on this survey that shows that utilities can get to the site.	00:29:41
	And in order to do that, you would have to have a private agreement from one of these property owners out in front.	00:29:46
	To go through their property with water and sewer and gas or whatever is required.	00:29:52
	And so I I think.	00:29:58
	There's some problems with this.	00:30:00
	Yeah. All right. So I think.	00:30:03
	We have a motion to continue this pending.	00:30:05
	Additional information.	00:30:08
	Do we have a second for that?	00:30:09
	I'll second it. All right.	00:30:11
	All those in favor.	00:30:13
	Aye, all right. Motion carries.	00:30:14
	All right, we're going to move on to our.	00:30:18
	Last item.	00:30:22
	Under new business.	00:30:23
	This is a major subdivision preliminary.	00:30:25
	Request Do we have a representative for this project?	00:30:28
	If someone will come forward and.	00:30:40
	If you'll just give your name and address and then add.	00:30:43
	Anything that you'd like to?	00:30:46
	Add here.	00:30:48
	Yeah, my name is Drew Inglesby, representing Ryan Holmes.	00:30:49
	My address is 11911 Miracle Woods Way.	00:30:53
	We're here for our preliminary.	00:30:58
	Approval and review by the Board. We have our engineer record here, Jonathan.	00:31:01
	In our surveyor, Jeff.	00:31:05
	And I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.	00:31:06
	OK.	00:31:12
	From the from the information we have.	00:31:15
	There's an issue about a second.	00:31:18
	Access point for this property.	00:31:21
	And I think there's.	00:31:24
	There's nothing that addresses that.	00:31:25
	Do you have further information on that?	00:31:27
	Sure. Do Jonathan. Our engineers speak to that.	00:31:32
	Hey, good afternoon, Jonathan Hill.	00:31:37
	109 Reddick Ave.	00:31:39
	Yes. So we, we have enough.	00:31:41
	Don't know if they were provided to you, but we have documents from.	00:31:42
	GDOT we've had.	00:31:46
	Extensive conversations with them about getting a second entrance.	00:31:47
	Which they?	00:31:50
	And, you know, equivocally denied.	00:31:51
	They said they would not allow another access.	00:31:52
	They've done the same thing, I think, to the city directly.	00:31:55
	For another project down the street.	00:31:58
	We talked about a ride in, right out.	00:32:01
	They wouldn't go for it. We have.	00:32:03
	Multiple emails that say.	00:32:05
	That they will not allow a second access point.	00:32:07
	So there are.	00:32:10
	Waves through that.	00:32:12
	The the.	00:32:14
	Purpose of the.	00:32:15
	Second entrance is really for life and safety.	00:32:16
	There's traffic studies.	00:32:19
	There's no need for a.	00:32:21
	As far as traffic controls go.	00:32:22
	A second entrance.	00:32:24
	The International Fire Code, Appendix D.	00:32:27
	Has.	00:32:29
	This situation covered.	00:32:30
	It provides a couple of options.	00:32:32
	To do this and address if there is a second entrance needed.	00:32:34
	We have. Excuse me?	00:32:39
	We do have.	00:32:41
	I'm not sure if it's shown or where it's shown.	00:32:43
	It's not shown here, but we do have a second entrance and approval from G dot.	00:32:45
	To utilize the.	00:32:49
	The lift station, there's the access.	00:32:51
	Lift off the lift station just to the.	00:32:53
	Right there. Yep. Yep.	00:32:55
	Where it says.	00:32:57
	Right there. Yep, there's a there's a lift station.	00:32:58
	Yeah, there it is.	00:33:01
	So there's an Access Rd.	00:33:02
	Right there.	00:33:04
	That will come off.	00:33:05
	And provide a.	00:33:07
	Emergency, uh.	00:33:08
	Egress and ingress.	00:33:09
	For the site.	00:33:11
	OK.	00:33:12
	So this is.	00:33:14
	Life safety. This will be a gated.	00:33:15
	Entrance with a knock box.	00:33:18
	We did meet.	00:33:21
	With staff and.	00:33:23
	Specifically, Chief Wagner.	00:33:24
	Who at the time?	00:33:26
	I don't have anything from him but.	00:33:28
	He did say that that was fine with him.	00:33:30
	So that was that's kind of where we.	00:33:35
	Landed with the second entrance we had it we asked for.	00:33:36
	And we were told no.	00:33:40
	A few times.	00:33:42
	I have a question on from the package.	00:33:44
	I haven't raised this as a concern before, but.	00:33:47
	Let me see this is page.	00:33:51
	30 I think of the.	00:33:53
	Happens, it shows.	00:33:55
	The land.	00:33:58
	The type of soil.	00:34:00
	And the purple.	00:34:02
	They indicate is.	00:34:04
	Lonely sand with slopes and the frequently flooded.	00:34:07
	So I'm assuming this whole area frequently.	00:34:12
	Has water collected yet? And when it says frequently flooded. So what you're looking at right there is from the.	00:34:15
	I mean, sorry the.	00:34:21
	I'm trying to remember it's a soul map from.	00:34:24
	USDA.	00:34:27
	That's the site that comes from.	00:34:28
	But there's been extensive.	00:34:30
	And Juanita was the.	00:34:32
	Well, a consultant.	00:34:33
	That's one exhibit of many.	00:34:35
	When they do their due diligence on the evaluation the site.	00:34:37
	The.	00:34:40
	Actual wetland delineation.	00:34:41
	Is buried in here somewhere? No, I wasn't concerned about the wetland. My concern is you already have.	00:34:44
	There's already so much concrete and.	00:34:50
	Impermeable.	00:34:53
	Land in the neighborhood.	00:34:57
	Neighborhood next to you.	00:34:58
	That probably a lot of that drainage is coming from there already, so.	00:35:00
	If you build it up.	00:35:05
	He would possibly flood.	00:35:06
	That area and I'm wondering, you know, because what you're going to.	00:35:08
	You're putting in is going to cover a lot of this land between the roads and the house sites and everything.	00:35:12
	I know you're planning to put in some lakes and things.	00:35:18
	I'm just concerned that this is currently.	00:35:21
	Assisting our.	00:35:23
	Preventing.	00:35:25
	The.	00:35:26
	Property from getting flooded by the water going.	00:35:28
	Onto this property.	00:35:30
	And how you might.	00:35:32
	Be able to mitigate that can.	00:35:33
	Would you mind pulling up the site plan again or the finish line?	00:35:35
	So there's two major, well there look really there's three major drain ways to.	00:35:39
	So.	00:35:47
	It's kind of hard to see. I'm going to try and.	00:35:49
	There's a drainage easement.	00:35:55
	100 foot drainage easement.	00:35:56
	That G dot has an easement over.	00:35:58
	And it works through the South property.	00:36:01
	And and connects into.	00:36:03
	Another drainway that.	00:36:05
	The existing.	00:36:08
	Sugar Mill.	00:36:09
	That runs on the backside.	00:36:11
	Marilee Clark.	00:36:12
	All of that connects down a dark entry Creek.	00:36:14
	So it's you have a good.	00:36:17
	Valid point, but there are drain ways through the property that.	00:36:20
	In theory, it's supposed to drain the property.	00:36:23
	Over the years, tempering.	00:36:27
	You know the property is not managed.	00:36:29
	It's just been sitting.	00:36:32
	So you know, you get these pockets.	00:36:33
	So there will be.	00:36:36
	Drainage improvements done for sure.	00:36:37
	The wetlands will have to.	00:36:39
	I'm sorry the.	00:36:41
	Ponds that are going to be provided for the development.	00:36:42
	Will have to meet a pre post requirement.	00:36:45
	That will be worked through with staff.	00:36:47
	City engineer so the volumetric flow rate leaving that site.	00:36:49
	Cannot be more.	00:36:53
	Than what is leaving the site now?	00:36:55
	Contrary to kind of.	00:36:58
	The the logical way of thinking, right?	00:37:00
	Because of the wetland area when you model the wetland areas.	00:37:03
	As it sits today.	00:37:07
	The more wetland area.	00:37:08
	Actually, the more runoff.	00:37:09
	You know you have because a wetland doesn't infiltrate.	00:37:11
	It just sheds.	00:37:13
	So every every drop of rain, in theory.	00:37:15
	That hits that ground, isn't going into the ground.	00:37:17
	Tend to run off.	00:37:20
	So that actually.	00:37:21
	Doesn't lend itself to.	00:37:24
	A better site that is, you know.	00:37:28
	Parking and.	00:37:32
	Having all the.	00:37:33
	No run off.	00:37:34
	It actually creates more runoff with more wetlands, so.	00:37:36
	Well, they're proposing some.	00:37:39
	Wetland impacts.	00:37:41
	That's necessary for the development.	00:37:43
	To happen.	00:37:44
	Just because it's scattered.	00:37:46
	You know, it's very scattered wetlands throughout the property.	00:37:47
	But yeah, we it will all be.	00:37:51
	Have to be managed and we have.	00:37:53
	You know pre and post development requirements to meet for the runoffs.	00:37:54
	Specifically, uh.	00:37:58
	And we have drainways to manage and maintain.	00:37:59
	Do we have other questions from?	00:38:03
	Commission members that we can turn to Jamie and let her do her presentation.	00:38:05
	Your access to Saint Mary's Road.	00:38:10
	You also have can you go and turn left also? Yes, Sir. Yeah, there there's a median cut.	00:38:13
	At the main entrance.	00:38:18
	So that is.	00:38:19
	Partly why you know, I don't. I don't know the reasoning.	00:38:21
	To be honest.	00:38:24
	It is a.	00:38:25
	Limited Access Rd.	00:38:26
	And that gnot has and they have you gain permission.	00:38:29
	To be able to cross it, there's already, there's actually already a meeting cut right there.	00:38:32
	So it's already, it's paid left turn lane, everything is there. We don't have to do any improvements really inside the right of	00:38:36
	way.	00:38:39
	To get in and out of that property at that location.	00:38:42
	It's the secondary point where we ask for right in, right out.	00:38:45
	Or another median cut.	00:38:49
	And they said.	00:38:50
	No, you're not going to get it.	00:38:52
	That that interest was is supposedly mixed with drive.	00:38:54
	From Coleraine roll over by Marilee Clark up railroad track.	00:39:00
	Actually, a crossroad could go soon.	00:39:07
	Other site had come up by the hospital.	00:39:09
	All right. All right. So I'm going to suggest we turn things over to Jamie.	00:39:13
	The city and then we'll come back to.	00:39:19
	Discussion and public comment.	00:39:21
	Thank you, gentlemen.	00:39:23
	OK, thank you. Before the Commission this evening is a major subdivision or preliminary plant.	00:39:24
	On behalf of Ryan Homes.	00:39:31
	From 4 Bay City Construction.	00:39:34
	Request a preliminary plat for a major subdivision of Parcels 121021.	00:39:37
	121021.	00:39:42
	121021C.	00:39:44
	And 134029.	00:39:46
	So if you remember, this was our first.	00:39:49
	A conceptual plan.	00:39:53
	That came before us, after our.	00:39:55
	A new subdivision ordinance.	00:39:58
	As you see in the staff memo, there are some minor.	00:40:01
	Omissions from the preliminary.	00:40:05
	One of the things that we were hoping for in our new subdivision ordinance is that.	00:40:08
	The amenity spaces would be further detailed, so we had talked about them.	00:40:12
	In the conceptual plat.	00:40:17
	We had been shown.	00:40:19
	Sort of a proposal for what types of amenities might be there.	00:40:20
	You know, this is our first one out of the gate, so I get that we're not quite there yet, but.	00:40:25
	We would like to see in future more detail.	00:40:30
	On those amenity packages, because that was really.	00:40:33
	Kind of one of our sticking points about.	00:40:36
	Whether or not the development was coming with appropriate amenities.	00:40:39
	Another sort of.	00:40:44
	Addition that I want us to think about a little bit.	00:40:46
	Is we we also ask in the.	00:40:49
	In the preliminary plat that we have a more substantial landscape plan.	00:40:53
	So that is something that I do not feel has been fully submitted at this time.	00:40:58
	But in your.	00:41:04
	In the Staffs review of the application.	00:41:05
	We're not.	00:41:09
	Expressing any concerns about those.	00:41:11
	There's two items that we're expressing concerns about.	00:41:14
	One is strictly based on section 86.	00:41:18
	10.	00:41:22
	No, I'm sorry.	00:41:24
	86-32 of the subdivision ordinance.	00:41:25
	There is this comment about egress and ingress.	00:41:28
	So the directly from the ordinance every major subdivision will endeavor.	00:41:32
	To have a minimum of two streets to ingress and egress.	00:41:37
	Into and out of the subdivision.	00:41:40
	Here's the catch. The Planning Commission.	00:41:42
	May approve a variance.	00:41:45
	To this requirement.	00:41:47
	When needing certain specifications so I want to take some time to digest.	00:41:49
	The two traffic studies.	00:41:55
	That were done for this development.	00:41:57
	There were two that were submitted, one had two entrances.	00:42:00
	And the other had one entrance.	00:42:04
	I asked our city engineer to do.	00:42:07
	Kind of a Cliff notes for me because I'm not a traffic engineer to sort of understand.	00:42:09
	And essentially, in looking at the two different studies, there's really no difference.	00:42:15
	At the intersection with Saint Mary's Road between.	00:42:21
	Two entrances and one entrance. There's slightly more.	00:42:24
	Turns that would be happening in the one entrance versus the two entrance.	00:42:27
	Entrances.	00:42:32
	However.	00:42:33
	In the subdivisions that we have.	00:42:35
	In place.	00:42:38
	That have one way.	00:42:40
	To get out.	00:42:41
	There are major concerns just around.	00:42:42
	Navigating.	00:42:46
	Within the development, which the traffic study did not look at, it did not look at internal navigation, it looked at the	00:42:47
	intersection.	00:42:51
	And we are currently negotiating.	00:42:55
	Access agreements with existing.	00:42:58
	Developments and where we're seeing that most prominently right now.	00:43:01
	Is in Osprey Cove.	00:43:05
	With the Exit 1 development.	00:43:07
	And the.	00:43:09
	Community members in the sanctuary.	00:43:10
	Are looking for.	00:43:12
	An alternative access point.	00:43:14
	And so.	00:43:16
	In a way, these emergency entrances do.	00:43:17
	The proposed emergency entrance does address this.	00:43:23
	But not wholly, because that would be a time for.	00:43:26
	Emergency response.	00:43:30
	To get in and out if.	00:43:31
	Something was closed.	00:43:33
	But for residents themselves?	00:43:34
	On a on an everyday basis.	00:43:36
	This would not be the case.	00:43:39
	So life safety as as Mr. Mcdeele.	00:43:41
	Suggested.	00:43:44
	You know the the Fire Chief.	00:43:46
	May be satisfied with this, but from a planning perspective.	00:43:48
	We feel that that.	00:43:53
	Is an area of concern.	00:43:54
	And I think that.	00:43:56
	You know, we've seen the the work that we've done on Exit 1.	00:43:59
	And through the fence access with Georgia dot to make a new cut.	00:44:03
	Onto Saint Mary's Road.	00:44:08
	Is very costly.	00:44:09
	And it takes a lot of time.	00:44:11
	And we have had several discussions, not just with.	00:44:13
	Taylor Morrison and ETM and the master planning.	00:44:16
	Of exit 1.	00:44:19
	But also the Klotz group across the.	00:44:21
	Across Saint Mary's Road.	00:44:23
	From this proposed development.	00:44:25
	Has negotiated through the fence access to the tune of $550,000.	00:44:27
	For their supplemental entrance so.	00:44:33
	I think from Staffs perspective.	00:44:36
	What was proposed?	00:44:39
	To Georgia dot.	00:44:41
	Was not the full breadth of what is possible here.	00:44:43
	For two entrances.	00:44:46
	So that's one of our areas of concern.	00:44:48
	And again.	00:44:51
	Per the subdivision ordinance.	00:44:52
	You have the authority.	00:44:54
	To waive that requirement. But it is.	00:44:56
	A requirement.	00:44:58
	The next thing that I want to talk about is that.	00:45:00
	This preliminary platform.	00:45:03
	Application.	00:45:05
	Came into us before.	00:45:07
	The moratorium.	00:45:09
	Was put in place.	00:45:10
	And it's before you now because it came in.	00:45:12
	Before the moratorium.	00:45:16
	But Staffs concerns still.	00:45:17
	Stand, and that concern stems from.	00:45:20
	When we wrote rewrote the subdivision ordinance.	00:45:24
	We included a set of criteria.	00:45:27
	In Section 86-4.	00:45:30
	In which we talk about.	00:45:33
	Certain elements that would give us some more concrete.	00:45:35
	Standing and how we were assessing new development.	00:45:40
	And, umm.	00:45:44
	Purpose number six.	00:45:46
	Talks about the adequacy of public infrastructure.	00:45:48
	The idea here is that.	00:45:52
	Whether the site is adequately served by existing or proposed infrastructure, including.	00:45:54
	Roadways, waters, sanitary sewer and stormwater systems.	00:46:00
	Staff during this moratorium, the moratorium is in place so that we can have.	00:46:04
	A more concrete understanding.	00:46:09
	Of our sewer.	00:46:13
	Collection system capacity.	00:46:14
	We have not arrived.	00:46:17
	At that concrete understanding.	00:46:19
	Yet.	00:46:21
	So that's why the moratorium is in place.	00:46:22
	And I am unable.	00:46:25
	Staff is unable.	00:46:27
	To fully render a decision about the adequacy of that public infrastructure.	00:46:29
	So for those two reasons, the ingress and the egress which.	00:46:34
	You have the authority to waive if you should choose.	00:46:37
	And that lack of.	00:46:40
	Or lack of understanding on the adequacy of the public infrastructure.	00:46:44
	Staff has recommended denial of this.	00:46:49
	Preliminary plan.	00:46:52
	And those are the two criteria that we would use to.	00:46:54
	Support the denial.	00:46:57
	All right, is that?	00:47:02
	You're you're done.	00:47:03
	I'm done all right.	00:47:05
	So before we go to.	00:47:07
	Public comment Do we have any?	00:47:08
	Further discussion.	00:47:10
	Let's go ahead and go to public comment and.	00:47:14
	Handle that all right.	00:47:17
	So with that, I'm going to open this up.	00:47:18
	Or public comment if you'd like to comment on this item.	00:47:20
	If you'll come forward to the podium, give your name and address and then anything you'd like to add to this.	00:47:24
	All right. I think I see no movement.	00:47:33
	So I'm going to presume that we can close the public comment period on this.	00:47:37
	Do we have further discussion?	00:47:43
	Amongst members or do we have?	00:47:45
	A motion for this item, I'll make a motion.	00:47:48
	Was 9 based on stats.	00:47:52
	Recommendations.	00:47:56
	All right. Do I have a second for that?	00:47:57
	Second, all right.	00:48:00
	All those in favor, aye.	00:48:01
	All right, that.	00:48:03
	Ends are items on our agenda.	00:48:05
	I'll just mention we had a working session earlier.	00:48:10
	We have some materials to take a look at.	00:48:13
	And Dina has expressed that she would be happy to have.	00:48:16
	Comments back from us. So I'm hoping that folks will try to work that into your schedules.	00:48:19
	Jamie, anything else you want to add before we adjourn?	00:48:26
	No, I think we're ready. I mean, potentially we should if you'd like to schedule another working session.	00:48:30
	For before the November meeting.	00:48:38
	Do you do you feel like that gives you enough time?	00:48:40
	OK.	00:48:44
	All right. Thank you. So you'll follow up with us on that and OK.	00:48:46
	All right. With that, I think we're ready for a motion to adjourn.	00:48:50
	So move. Do I have a second? Second. All right, all those in favor, aye.	00:48:55
	Meeting is adjourned.	00:49:01