Transcript

Event transcript
I do have. 00:00:00
So glad. 00:00:02
Oh, that is great. 00:00:05
Powerful. 00:00:12
Look at that, I feel like I'm swimming in time. 00:00:15
All right, five more seconds, I think, or. 00:00:19
Has to be 5 seconds like. 00:00:24
Looks so clumsy. 00:00:28
All right. 00:00:29
All right, here we go. 00:00:31
All right. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the 28 October. 00:00:33
2025 Historic Preservation. 00:00:37
Council meeting. 00:00:39
We want to make sure our mics are all turned on. 00:00:40
All right, And we're just going to do a roll call. We'll start to our left and work our way to the right. 00:00:44
Colleen, Dan. 00:00:50
Kelly Knapp. 00:00:52
Melvin Taylor. 00:00:54
Julia McCullough. 00:00:55
Cynthia Talbot. 00:00:57
All right, it looks like we have a quorum for tonight. 00:00:59
And we want to just start with the city to see if there's any initial comments. 00:01:01
Thank you, Commissioners, and thank you to the public who is joining us. I think you can all hear me. 00:01:06
I'm Jamie, the Development Director for the City, and I will be with you in the interim. 00:01:13
I think you now know that we are Mr. Tate McMahon is no longer employed. 00:01:19
With the city, so at least will become the. 00:01:25
The point person and the staff person for the Commission. 00:01:28
And I'm here just kind of in a back. 00:01:32
Backup role. She's done some really great things. I think you'll see them this evening in the presentation. 00:01:33
Hey, Elise, welcome. 00:01:41
I mean, I know you've been here forever, but welcome. 00:01:43
You're awesome. We really look forward to working with you in every capacity that we get. 00:01:46
So thank you. 00:01:51
And so we're going to move on to the the approval of the minutes from the 23 September. 00:01:52
2025 Meeting. 00:01:58
We received that via e-mail. 00:02:00
Do we have a motion for that? 00:02:02
Motion to approve September's minutes. 00:02:04
2nd. 00:02:07
You guys have to fight over it or something's going to happen here, I don't know. 00:02:09
I second it. All right, all in favor say aye. 00:02:15
Aye. 00:02:18
All right. Looks like we have a unanimous approval for that. 00:02:18
OK. It doesn't look like we have any old business. 00:02:23
This month. 00:02:26
So new business. 00:02:28
Are we doing? 00:02:30
The windows. 00:02:31
That is on the agenda as the the second discussion item. 00:02:34
OK, second discussion item. 00:02:39
Will take on the certificate of appropriateness 27. 00:02:40
OK, yes. So whoever the representative is for 2:07. 00:02:44
Ready Street if they could come up and state their name and their address. 00:02:49
Oh, did we not approve the agenda? I'm so sorry. 00:02:54
Before we no you come back, you can stay, Sir. 00:02:57
So we do have to approve the agenda. 00:03:01
Do we have a motion for that? 00:03:03
Make a motion to approve the agenda. 00:03:05
A second all in favor, say. 00:03:08
Aye. 00:03:11
All right. Looks like we have a unanimous vote for that or approval for that. 00:03:12
Sorry about that. 00:03:16
She always keeps me honest. 00:03:19
Yes Sir. So if you could please state your name and your address. 00:03:21
Sure. My name is Henry de Bloch. 00:03:24
Newly arrived resident at 207 Reddy St. 00:03:27
Welcome. Thank you. 00:03:30
All right. And what we usually do is we just do a quick walkthrough of the. 00:03:32
Kind of what you want to do. 00:03:36
And it will. 00:03:37
Ask some questions and then we vote on it. 00:03:38
Sure. 00:03:41
We are seeking. 00:03:42
Historical Society preservation approval for a pool. 00:03:43
In our backyard. 00:03:48
And. 00:03:49
I guess the basics are. 00:03:50
It's a built-in pool and it would be. 00:03:53
A company with a pool deck. 00:03:57
With natural stone. 00:03:59
Right. Yeah. 00:04:02
And I can get into more details. 00:04:04
I think Elise has put together some of your materials in this presentation. So I have the stone here. I have your site plan here. 00:04:07
We got an aerial of the of the home. 00:04:13
So what you're seeing on the on the right hand side of the screen is ready St. and the. 00:04:15
The parcel runs that way, so. 00:04:20
Maybe if you want to just. 00:04:23
Walk through. 00:04:24
A couple notes that. 00:04:27
The backyard is completely. 00:04:29
Obscured from the street. 00:04:32
You wouldn't. 00:04:34
You wouldn't even know we had a backyard. 00:04:35
So, you know, in terms of the pool. 00:04:38
It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be something you would see. 00:04:41
That being said. 00:04:45
You know, we went with natural stone Gray. 00:04:46
Which is uh. 00:04:49
We feel like appropriate for. 00:04:51
You know the pool travertine is. 00:04:54
Not something I'm used to, but it seems like everybody. 00:04:57
Does it down here so. 00:05:00
And the pool is a. 00:05:02
It you know 16 by 32 is the dimensions and the pool deck is. 00:05:05
It pretty much comes. 00:05:10
Towards the back of the house and towards the road off the. 00:05:14
Is long ways. The pool would be long ways I should say. 00:05:18
In the backyard. 00:05:23
Well, First off, I'm really jealous about this situation right now. 00:05:24
But we'll go to the city. Does the city have any comments on it? 00:05:28
So Elise has prepared a staff report for you, which is I think kind of a new addition to your Commission. It's something that we. 00:05:32
Do pretty regularly in the Planning Commission and we'd like to bring it. 00:05:40
To to this Commission as well. 00:05:44
Mr. Debloc, if you just want to discuss some of your fencing material. 00:05:48
Sure, the. 00:05:51
The fence that we have now is. 00:05:53
Would be. 00:05:56
I remain unchanged. It's a. 00:05:58
It's a picket fence. 00:06:01
Yeah, I it's probably 3 feet, so it's a little guy. 00:06:02
The the fence. 00:06:07
That would the pool fence per se would be. 00:06:09
Would be white picket but it would obviously not be a three foot fence. It would be. 00:06:13
We have. 00:06:20
We're going to go with a white picket. That would just be. 00:06:22
Taller. And we do have the Gray, the black. 00:06:25
Traditional pool fence and that's more. 00:06:31
For the neighbor. 00:06:33
Because. 00:06:34
Yeah. 00:06:37
Line that's quite tall, probably. 00:06:38
10 feet high and thick. 00:06:40
And you would not be able to see the black fencing at all. 00:06:42
So we figured it would be. 00:06:46
Better for the neighbor to. 00:06:50
You know not see a fence, although you know if you walk up to it you would see it in like underneath the. 00:06:52
The tree Bush. 00:06:58
Stuff. But that's why we had one section. That was why. 00:06:59
OK, great. 00:07:03
Great. 00:07:05
Yeah, the beautiful property that you have. 00:07:09
Thank you. Yeah, and just. 00:07:12
Appreciate all the hard work you put into this and. 00:07:15
All the details, sketches and information it was. 00:07:18
Really helpful to me personally to understand what you were trying to do. 00:07:22
Appreciate it. 00:07:26
Yeah. 00:07:27
All right. Do we have any, do we have any discussion from the board? 00:07:32
I think it sounds great. 00:07:37
OK. Thank you. 00:07:38
All right. Do we want to make a motion? Do we have any further questions? 00:07:41
Can we just ask is the type 1 and type 2 on the fencing is that? 00:07:45
Are you going to make that decision or is that in two separate places? Maybe I missed that piece. I'm sorry. 00:07:49
It says type 1 black aluminum, then type 2 white. Final picket. 00:07:54
Yes, the two types are. 00:07:58
The. 00:08:01
The black aluminum. 00:08:03
Would be. 00:08:05
Along the property line to our neighbor. 00:08:06
I don't. I don't know the neighbors name. So you'll be using both of those. We don't have to. 00:08:11
We we could. 00:08:17
But we thought it would be better. 00:08:18
If I was them. 00:08:20
I probably did like want to see it the way it is. Still OK. 00:08:21
Thank you. 00:08:24
Just a few if I could interject so. 00:08:27
The final recommendation here from the staff does have kind of three conditions of approval. Staff recommends approval. 00:08:29
All work shall comply with applicable zoning, Building permit and IPMC requirements. So the pool when you go for your building 00:08:36
permit, it will be required to be fenced in. 00:08:41
So we can have that discussion when you go to pull the permit. 00:08:45
The applicant shall confirm the location and design of the white vinyl picket fencing. 00:08:49
To ensure consistency. 00:08:54
With existing St. visible fencing. 00:08:56
We got that right, right that the. 00:08:58
Aluminum will be along the the fence line to the north adjoining the neighbor. 00:09:00
And then that there is a strip. 00:09:06
Kind of that would be to the side of the house here. 00:09:09
That would be white pick and that would be white. 00:09:12
So we're confirming that in the discussion. 00:09:14
And then if you do have any significant modifications to the design, just reach out and we can. 00:09:17
Work to assist with that. 00:09:22
Just as a note, one thing that we want to kind of. 00:09:24
Get into everybody's mind is that certificate of appropriateness has come with a six month. 00:09:27
Kind of time stamp on them. 00:09:33
So if you run into a point where you need an extension, you can reach out to the office. 00:09:34
And we can, I don't think. 00:09:39
I don't think. 00:09:41
A year out has to go before the. 00:09:42
Commission. 00:09:45
I can check on that, but six months try to get it done. If not you can do an extension. 00:09:48
I have a question on that actually. Yeah, I know we're. 00:09:53
Kind of regrouping on some things, but. 00:09:55
They have to be complete within a six months where they start with start. 00:09:57
Start work OK, Start within the system, Scotty. 00:10:00
Yep. OK. And there is an opportunity to extend because things come up, you know, it might be. 00:10:02
So but. 00:10:07
Keeping that in mind. 00:10:09
Thank you. Yeah. 00:10:10
We're learning together. 00:10:11
Did the contractor excuse me? 00:10:13
Did the contractor give you an estimate on the time frame? 00:10:16
From start to completion. 00:10:19
He he did. He was, you know, as. 00:10:22
Upon approval, all the approvals. 00:10:26
He. 00:10:28
Indicated that. 00:10:28
It would be done by. 00:10:30
The spring. 00:10:32
There's there's. It takes months from what I understand. 00:10:34
Cement has to cure the. 00:10:38
Gunite or whatever, uh. 00:10:40
It's called. 00:10:42
And, umm. 00:10:43
And then they they do it in stages. 00:10:44
So we were. 00:10:46
Banking on it being. 00:10:48
You know, ready to go. 00:10:50
For hopefully the summer. 00:10:51
Is it going to be a? 00:10:53
I type. 00:10:57
Pool or? Yeah, OK. 00:10:58
That's the plan. 00:11:02
Lastly, this is for you, Mr. 00:11:05
The block we're we're instituting, I think something else that's a little bit fun and I'll give the. 00:11:08
A couple of copies to the Commission so at least was able to generate what we're calling this historic home profile. 00:11:13
Which takes the information from our 1984 Historic Resources Survey. 00:11:21
And the more recent 2022? 00:11:26
And kind of, you know, puts it together for you to know just a little bit of the history if you didn't know it already. 00:11:29
So it's a nice, it's a nice kind of. 00:11:35
You know, it's just a little token. I really appreciate it and I know the. 00:11:38
Original purchase price of 267. You knew that I didn't know that that's a better deal and I love that the bit about it was. 00:11:42
Purchased by the wife, but the the husband was the boat captain of the Hildegarde. Like really cool. 00:11:52
Thank you very much. You're welcome. Really cool. Appreciate it. 00:11:59
At least I have to just say like this is insane. I know what is going on here. 00:12:02
Awesome. Thank you for that. 00:12:08
So is there any more discussion on the board for? 00:12:11
Do we? Do we have a motion? 00:12:14
Are we going to make a motion on all three together? 00:12:16
Or should we separate them? 00:12:18
For. 00:12:20
The only reason I suggest that is if the timing of the pool extends past that. Maybe it might I mean. 00:12:22
Obviously I don't think any of us have an issue with any of them, but. 00:12:28
It just may be beneficial to y'all to have to go back. 00:12:31
So can we start with the first one really fast? 00:12:33
How about the in ground pool? OK in ground pool. 00:12:36
Motion made A. 00:12:39
Approve the certificate appropriateness for the in ground pool. 00:12:40
I second. 00:12:43
All in favor say aye. 00:12:44
I anyways. 00:12:47
It's unanimous. 00:12:49
All right, we'll move to the second item. 00:12:50
The decking. 00:12:53
I make a motion to approve the decking. 00:12:55
For 207 Reddy St. 00:12:58
2nd. 00:13:01
All in favor say aye aye. 00:13:02
Any days? All right, we're good on that. 00:13:04
And the third thing, the fencing. 00:13:06
All right, the fencing. 00:13:08
I make a motion to approve. 00:13:11
I'll second all in favor say aye. 00:13:13
Aye aye, any naysay? 00:13:16
All right, unanimous on that one. 00:13:18
This job is so fun. I like the one that like the, you know the. 00:13:20
But yes, thank you so much man. And we, we appreciate you very much, Sir. 00:13:24
Thank you. Appreciate you all. 00:13:28
All right, hopefully that was painless. 00:13:29
It was. 00:13:31
Thank you, Sir. Thank you so much. 00:13:34
Congratulations. 00:13:36
All right. And then I think we're moving into. 00:13:39
Let me look here. 00:13:46
So we have discussion items or are we going to discussion items? OK, got it. 00:13:47
So I'm gonna. 00:13:50
Abandoned my iPad. 00:13:52
So we have Grayson. 00:13:54
Matthewson. 00:13:56
So to discuss repairs and renovations on the. 00:13:58
Deck at 105 Osborne St. 00:14:01
And so if you please state your name and your address. 00:14:05
Yeah, Grayson Matthewson. 00:14:07
150 Peters Rd. for Indiana Beach, Florida. 00:14:09
OK, awesome in. 00:14:12
Before we start, we are not, we're not voting on this at all. We're just. 00:14:14
Just a quick update on what's going on with it, right? 00:14:17
Well, I mean, I think. 00:14:20
I think it's. 00:14:22
We should learn what is the proposed scope of work. 00:14:23
And then understand you know if. 00:14:26
Things were to happen which. 00:14:29
Things often do and exterior environments in Southeast Georgia and historic structures. 00:14:30
That, you know, we would. 00:14:36
We would come back and have a conversation, but let's let's hear the scope. 00:14:37
Yeah. So we're looking at the the frontage of the building here. The scope of work is to repair some. 00:14:41
Damage and or deterioration to the second level deck. 00:14:48
On the front of the building. 00:14:52
There is some. 00:14:54
There is some concerns, especially on the. 00:14:56
Outer ends. 00:14:58
Of the deck on both ends that there is some minor wood rot and maybe some structural repairs that are required. 00:14:59
Won't really know though until we pull the facade off. 00:15:06
And look at it. 00:15:09
We do have engineers on board ready to. 00:15:11
Tackle those repairs, but the idea is to put back as. 00:15:13
It is existing, so existing deck boards. 00:15:17
The existing. 00:15:21
Facade that runs down the the second level front. 00:15:22
And on the sides after we make the structural repairs. 00:15:26
And then finish with. 00:15:29
Caulk and and beautification of paint. 00:15:30
There's not going to be any modifications to the hand rails other than. 00:15:33
If you look at the second Bay from the left. 00:15:38
There is a noted bow. 00:15:41
In the bottom rail that we will be replacing. 00:15:43
But the rest of the rails were fine. 00:15:47
OK, there's some other pictures in here, but that's not. 00:15:50
For this OK. 00:15:53
So we'll start with the city. What? What do you all? 00:15:56
Yeah. So I think this is a thank you. 00:15:58
Thank you very much. And I think this is similar to some conversations with the Spencer house and I think look we're. 00:16:01
You know, what we're trying to work out here is informing the Commission. 00:16:09
And then coming back to you and saying that if you, you know, have your contractors assembled and you run into something and 00:16:14
there's a change that has to be made. 00:16:17
You know, we're going to have a conversation about what? 00:16:21
Those changes. 00:16:24
You know what would constitute coming back before the Commission? And I would think from what you've described, this feels like 00:16:26
maintenance of of the structure itself. This is a historic structure. This has the historic designation. 00:16:33
I think a replacement like for. 00:16:41
To ensure that the. 00:16:44
Structure is sound is is a very good thing, and that's why it's come before you as a discussion. 00:16:45
Is that also known as the Riverside? 00:16:51
The Riverview Hotel. 00:16:53
Thank you. 00:16:56
To see we. 00:16:59
So basically I like for like. 00:17:01
Do they still come before us for approval on that? 00:17:03
It's just just a discussion, right? Yeah. Just to let you know, I mean, I felt like the move with the Spencer house was good. 00:17:05
It was a really nice, Yeah, thank you for that. It's such a, it's such a change, a marked change for downtown that just kind of 00:17:11
talking through it was good. 00:17:15
And I have, you know, I, I used to plan for a community in Guilford, CT, which was founded in 1638. And oftentimes when you get 00:17:19
into a 1700s, this is not that old, but that style of home, you know, you're. 00:17:25
Minor demolition becomes major demolition and that tends to upset people. 00:17:31
Also just wanna. 00:17:36
Kind of know what we're getting into here. 00:17:37
Yeah, understood. 00:17:39
Thank you. 00:17:40
Thank you so much for coming. 00:17:41
I did have a question where you have to. 00:17:43
Put up blocking for. 00:17:46
To protect the pedestrians if they're using the sidewalk and all of that area, yes, that's a good question actually when we're 00:17:49
pulling off. 00:17:52
The deck boards and doing any repairs to the deck that could. 00:17:56
Have a potential for dropping there will be. 00:17:59
MOT positioned up the street at the nearest sidewalk to direct pedest. 00:18:02
Across the way and around. 00:18:06
The construction area agree. Great. 00:18:08
I just wanted to. 00:18:10
Double check on that. That's kind of a. 00:18:11
Special area downtown right at that corner. Yes, yes. Thank you so much. You're welcome. 00:18:13
Thank you. 00:18:19
Thank you so much. Thank you. 00:18:20
All right. 00:18:23
In addition, Yep. 00:18:24
And we have an alumni here. 00:18:26
From the from the HPC. 00:18:28
Mr. Tom Franta. 00:18:31
506 St. 00:18:32
Yeah. Hi, Mrs. Rand. 00:18:34
6 St. and. 00:18:35
The queen of the property? Yes, smart man. 00:18:39
Well, anyway, we. 00:18:44
The Commission approved windows for that side of my house which. 00:18:45
Really. Uh. 00:18:50
Wasn't the original part of the house? So yeah. So we were thinking about replacing the other windows. 00:18:51
But then going up there and seeing that WAVY glass and everything. 00:18:58
We came up with an alternative. 00:19:01
Actually, Julie, you might know Frank. 00:19:03
Behind us. 00:19:06
He said he could actually put in sashes where? 00:19:07
We can actually use our windows which have been painted 50 times. 00:19:10
So we're looking at maybe. 00:19:14
Doing that. Nice, yeah. 00:19:15
So we kind of got in contract a little bit with this other situation, so. 00:19:17
We're actually looking to go to. 00:19:22
Preserving the history. 00:19:25
So that's what. 00:19:26
I guess we want to know for. 00:19:29
Perfect. We like that idea. Yeah. I mean, I think it's it's great. It's just a mechanics of how we do it, right. 00:19:31
Yeah, to be a fashion. 00:19:37
Front of the original. 00:19:39
Windows, Yeah, yeah, we want to keep, you know, the original part of the house. We got the Anderson for that little. 00:19:40
Parking sticks out in that modern kitchen, right? 00:19:46
The rest of it, you know, with a little WAVY, we could just open them if Frank comes and does what he says, right? Yeah. 00:19:49
And then you'll let us know. As we discussed at the mailbox, I think we could all use Frank. 00:19:55
Yeah, yeah. 00:20:02
So this is we're denying. So we're doing this is we're denying the. I mean, I think I have a little bit of a workaround, right? 00:20:04
So, so the. 00:20:08
A portion of the work that was approved in June of 2024 has been done. 00:20:13
So some of your. 00:20:18
Some of the windows have been done but this. 00:20:20
Other portion of the house. 00:20:22
That was included in the original certificate of appropriateness. 00:20:24
Has not been done. 00:20:28
So the Commission could choose a few things we could call. 00:20:29
Certain elements of that 2024 COA now. 00:20:34
Defunct because the work hasn't happened and it's been a year. 00:20:38
And then we can just. 00:20:41
You know you can either proceed with that. 00:20:43
Or we can present this as a new item for consideration and you can give them a denial. 00:20:46
For the replacement and an approval of the sash. 00:20:51
Can we do that now or is that not? 00:20:55
Well, the one thing I'm a little bit hesitant of is that we did not. 00:20:58
Post signs and send letters for this particular application. 00:21:02
So I feel a little bit more comfortable and we talked about this, you know, just kind of. 00:21:07
That, umm. 00:21:11
My office would send a letter saying that the certificate of appropriateness that was approved. 00:21:12
In June 25, 2024, is now. 00:21:19
Expired. 00:21:23
And anywhere henceforth. 00:21:24
Cannot be completed. 00:21:26
Tom, how quickly were you trying to get on the? 00:21:27
Minute Are you in a crunch, on time or not at all? OK, so. 00:21:30
I really feel like that's that's exactly the reason why, Mr. Devil. 00:21:34
Thing with the three pieces in it, that's why, OK, if we do those three things separately, then if that should happen with him, 00:21:38
then we go back and we just stick with that one. Sure. Yeah, yeah. 00:21:44
We're not really doing any changing. We're going to. We just want to open our window. So you won't even, there's not going to be 00:21:50
any change. The window will come off. 00:21:54
You know, put in the sashes. 00:21:59
So we can. 00:22:01
And it's, it's nothing noticeable. It's really repair. Yeah, that goes along with maintenance, just like the hotel. 00:22:02
It's yeah, right. 00:22:10
If it's maintenance, I don't think your office needs to worry about the letters and the sign. If it's outside of that scope, I 00:22:12
feel like. 00:22:15
We should probably. 00:22:19
Do but the denial of the. 00:22:21
Vital windows is what? 00:22:24
Or yeah. 00:22:26
OK, Right. Yeah, I think there's a contractual obligation that we're. 00:22:28
Yeah, that we're looking to address. So I think it's best because of what Julia was saying and because of what other commissioners 00:22:32
are saying. What you're doing is sort of maintenance of your structure to be able to operate your very historic windows. I've I've 00:22:38
heard from Miss Westbury that that glass is. 00:22:43
Not made anymore. You can't even get it. 00:22:49
So I think from our perspective, it's a great. 00:22:51
It's a great turn of events. 00:22:53
And so. 00:22:55
I'm I'm happy to write a letter from my office. 00:22:56
That you could utilize. 00:22:59
OK, stating that the certificate of appropriateness is now null and void. 00:23:01
Because it was approved over a year ago. 00:23:06
Well, that's easy outside the box. 00:23:08
It's great. Yeah. And that work was done. So that's right. Yep. 00:23:11
So I think that does that solve your problem. Do you feel comfortable with that? 00:23:16
Situation. Something that says that. 00:23:19
It doesn't work anymore. 00:23:23
That will. 00:23:24
That suggestion you can't do. 00:23:25
Because of the historic nature of the house. 00:23:27
Yep, OK. 00:23:29
Thank you. There's a way. 00:23:31
I have a general question. 00:23:32
Oh, that color. 00:23:34
Do you like the color of the Spencer House? 00:23:36
Would be all of that somewhere very. 00:23:38
Yeah, I like it. 00:23:41
I love that color. 00:23:43
Not not for the color. We don't have a paint code, so we've we've. 00:23:45
We've looked into this. 00:23:49
We look into this just a little bit. 00:23:51
There's certainly some colors that we could recommend to you, but no, there is. 00:23:55
So and Tom, I can see that Tom. 00:24:01
So we have looked into this just a little bit. You know, one of the things that. 00:24:06
We're going to talk about later is that we are revisiting the Historic Preservation Commission and districts design guidelines. 00:24:10
And there needs to be just a little bit of clarity around. 00:24:18
Certain materials and the integrity of materials. 00:24:21
And not painting over those materials. 00:24:25
Nothing on this House would. 00:24:28
Kind of qualify for that. That's specific to the. 00:24:29
Type of stone. 00:24:32
That is on the Rose Level house, that is on the Submarine Museum and that is on the Oak Grove Cemetery wall. 00:24:34
So there's really only one material type that we have in the city that. 00:24:40
You know, there's a little bit of. 00:24:44
A desire not to paint that. 00:24:47
But that's that would be. 00:24:48
The only you know. 00:24:50
Which doesn't apply to your house, but the only time that paint. 00:24:52
Is involved in our discussions. 00:24:54
OK. 00:24:57
We have had groups come in and say like, this is what we're thinking, and then we all say that's going to look amazing and you 00:24:59
know. 00:25:01
We ought to hear. 00:25:04
No. So I think we found resolution there. 00:25:09
It was good seeing you both again. 00:25:11
I see. Thank you. We'll see you next month. 00:25:13
Yes. 00:25:15
Thank you. 00:25:17
Thank you both. 00:25:18
And so the next thing on the list is we have. 00:25:20
My neighbor here. 00:25:24
So we're going to review and approve the HPC annual report. 00:25:26
The annual report that is supposed to be done yearly actually I think has not been done in. 00:25:30
Quite some time by the HPC. 00:25:37
So, umm. 00:25:39
Not since yeah, 2020 I think was the last time it was done. 00:25:40
What I did was sort of mirror the one that was done in 2020. 00:25:44
Miss Stein, you have a copy of it? Elise, I apologize, I don't, I did not give you all a copy, but it's really for the. 00:25:49
Board to look at, OK. 00:25:54
The. 00:25:57
I think you share. 00:25:59
Can you do? I do? Thank you. 00:26:00
Thank you for calling. OK. 00:26:03
And the first thing is we look at the accomplishments this is going to once this report is approved by y'all. And if anything 00:26:05
needs to be added or taken away, it'll be. 00:26:09
Given at the November 17th City Council meeting. I'll, I'll do that report. I think Melvin's out of town. 00:26:15
Accomplishments. 00:26:22
In 2025 and I know we're not finished, but at the point I mean I think all of y'all should probably. 00:26:23
Know all of these, I mean, you either approve them or approve them or we're a big part of it. 00:26:28
Most of them are. We've got some remodels in addition some tree removals. 00:26:34
Vacant lot demolition. 00:26:40
Fencing, outdoor signage, which we're going to talk about. 00:26:42
Think in just a few minutes. 00:26:45
The mural and. 00:26:48
Some planting and some more outdoor sign but most a new roof requests so most of those. 00:26:49
And it says the disposition of the request. The Commission eventually approved most COA requests. 00:26:55
Some with modifications to which the applicants agreed. 00:27:00
HPC continues to make recommendations to the city on signage and aesthetic issues. 00:27:04
We had one COA regarding exterior Merrill that was denied. Applicant has not approached us. 00:27:09
Again, regarding a modified application on that. 00:27:13
So if you folks are OK with that. 00:27:16
Chunk, we're going to go with that. If there's anything, just let me know. 00:27:18
Before we leave tonight so I can get it in there, let's let's address this. 00:27:23
Part at the end of the. 00:27:27
Proposal here which says funds available. Well, no. 00:27:28
Well, we have a lot more. OK. So you're not, you're not right. Sorry. So that's yeah. So if there's nothing with the disposition 00:27:31
of the request. 00:27:36
We'll leave that as is. 00:27:40
And discussions held. 00:27:42
For information purposes, these were no Coas, but these were things that we talked about and those were. 00:27:43
The window paintings that was Amanda Moore working with of several I think. 00:27:49
City properties and doing that. 00:27:53
Additional signages at the multi tenant that was a. 00:27:55
Purple door historic markers, which I think Miss Nap is going to talk with us about tonight. 00:27:58
Lighting in the district. 00:28:05
There's some things in the ordinance that involve lighting, but it's really more positioning of the lighting. 00:28:07
Versus the extent of the lighting and I think Jamie might kind of. 00:28:14
We're going to see if we can have conversations about that and. 00:28:18
Regard in the ordinance as well. 00:28:21
And I think we talked about the retroactive fines as well. 00:28:23
Grant approval for the rewrite of the historic district guidelines that was approved. I think there was a. 00:28:30
$15,000 put in place and then the city. 00:28:36
Match can be satisfied with staff time. 00:28:40
Jamie, correct me if I'm wrong along those lines, OK? 00:28:42
OK, and that grant writing while it hasn't? 00:28:45
Been started and we haven't been involved in it yet. I'm sure that we're going to hear about that soon. 00:28:48
And then the last discussion items for the encroachment permit with cafes and parklets. 00:28:53
So some of the accomplishments. 00:28:59
I mean, since I've been on board, I think the seven member Commission, I appreciate that we have 7. 00:29:02
Members of the community involved in the Historic Preservation District. 00:29:07
Most members have already served a year. 00:29:12
We have two members that live or have lived in the historic district. 00:29:14
All members are enthusiastic and come to meetings prepared to discuss the Coas as relative as they relate to the ordinance. 00:29:20
And our desire to continuously learn as evident by our attendance out. 00:29:27
Relative HPC events statewide and our Main Street events. 00:29:31
So, OK, so some of the goals and this is where I want to talk a little bit. 00:29:35
Continue to educate our citizens so that they understand the restrictions in the district are required by the state for the 00:29:41
district to be a designated historic area. 00:29:46
And I think you know Jamie, I think when I first came on board, you recommended us going to the. 00:29:51
The local festivals and having conversations with people, I know that. 00:29:56
That hasn't come to fruition, and that's some. 00:30:00
That's something we probably need to get a little better at. I'm #2 working with planning and city. 00:30:02
Council to revise the ordinance to eliminate confusing language. Y'all, that was on twenty 20s. 00:30:07
Report, it was also on two previous year's report and I think that that's something that we. 00:30:13
Really need to do. 00:30:19
So we need to get that ordinance revised so that it applies to Saint Mary's and. 00:30:21
And things like that. 00:30:26
And it includes best practices of maintaining the culture and the aesthetics of the district. I'm sure training is available all 00:30:28
members. That's while it's one of our goals, I think it's something we've really gotten good at. 00:30:33
I think when? 00:30:39
Whether it was Jamie's office or Tage or. 00:30:40
Whoever, I think that we've been invited to several trainings and many of us have gone. 00:30:43
Out of town, in town, Zoom and I think that. 00:30:49
That kind of lends itself to. 00:30:51
How good we're working together. 00:30:54
#4 to fairly implement fines to residents that failed to follow COA guidelines. 00:30:57
We. 00:31:05
You know, we have people that aren't following the guidelines and I think Jamie's office works really, really hard trying to. 00:31:07
Keep them in check, but. 00:31:13
Sometimes. 00:31:15
I'm going to use the word exposed. I don't know what else to say. And then other times say. 00:31:17
Slide. 00:31:21
The railing and they're not. 00:31:22
You know, if we let people. 00:31:25
In the district, do things outside of the guidelines and the ordinances and their. 00:31:27
Not being. 00:31:32
Reprimanded or fined or whatever, then are we really doing our job? 00:31:34
And so that's something that we we need one of our goals. 00:31:38
To better inform all businesses about existing ordinance guidelines and that's not just businesses, that's our our homeowners as 00:31:43
well. I think we've kind of we've gotten a lot better with the homeowner section of it, but I think we still have some work to do 00:31:47
on the business section of it. 00:31:52
Encourage planning at City Council to include at least one representative, not the entire Commission. 00:31:57
On all. 00:32:02
Decisions made within the district that might affect the overall ambiance and. 00:32:03
Atmosphere of the district. 00:32:07
Those are the goals that I would recommend. 00:32:09
Funds available, Jamie, OK, I'm finished. First of all, if I know Jimmy's got some conversation about the funds, but are there 00:32:12
any, is there anything that needs to be changed? 00:32:17
I before I do have a question. 00:32:23
Is concerning the fines. 00:32:27
Implementing the fight. 00:32:30
Is there a way? Because I think a lot of people that. 00:32:32
Move into the historic homes as we did. 00:32:35
Several years ago. 00:32:39
There's nothing to say, you know, Make sure this is what from the city or from the HPC. 00:32:40
To say. 00:32:46
These are the rules that apply, so you need to. 00:32:47
Understand about a CEO and what you need to do. 00:32:51
If you want to make any changes. So is there anything that can come out? 00:32:55
From the HBC or from the city? 00:32:59
Just a letter maybe put in the mailbox to everybody within the well I will tell you when I first joined. 00:33:01
The Commission, I asked Fred Mercier, who was on the on the board at the time, if that was something that we could do. And, and I 00:33:09
and I thought that it would have been appropriate there. You know, there's really a few Realtors in this area that work. 00:33:15
Exclusively with our historic our historic homes and I think that it would be a great thing for us to be able to work with them. 00:33:21
That a welcome package. 00:33:25
Be given, maybe even. 00:33:30
Maybe not just. 00:33:33
A welcome package, but maybe a guideline package? 00:33:34
Beforehand. 00:33:37
Fred said that we would run people off, but I really don't believe that to be true. I think that people who own historic homes in 00:33:38
this town. 00:33:41
Are proud of the historic homes and they feel blessed and and are excited I think that we've really. 00:33:44
You know, you could probably speak to us about owning A historic home in the town and how the process even went. 00:33:50
And some areas that you might say we need help with or what don't when you bought your historic home. 00:33:56
I mean, were you told by the Realtors that it was in the? 00:34:01
In the historic district and there were guidelines to come up to the mic. And I know I'm off topic a little and I know we have a 00:34:04
long agenda, but I think that it's probably worth here. 00:34:09
We have like 10,000 people that watch every week. 00:34:13
Yeah, I'm joking around. You use that. I'll say that every single time. Yeah, I say it every time. So were you given a packet by 00:34:15
the? 00:34:18
By your realtor. 00:34:22
Not a packet, OK. 00:34:24
You know, we we lived in a. 00:34:25
Old Victorian prior. 00:34:27
Prior house so. 00:34:30
We we kind of knew about all this stuff, but the real estate agent did. 00:34:31
Inform us and you know we looked online. 00:34:36
You know, just did a good old fashioned. 00:34:41
You know, Googling. 00:34:43
OK, on your own, yes, more OK, real estate agent told us. But. 00:34:44
We didn't get any. 00:34:48
Paperwork or anything OK, this process to answer your second part of this process was? 00:34:50
Painless and pleasant. 00:34:54
Oh, thank you for Melvin did that. 00:34:56
Thank you. But that's probably something that we need to work on, whether it's in the form of a welcome packet or a guideline to 00:35:00
the local Realtors that have a tendency to handle most of our historic homes and things like that. 00:35:06
And that can't be put on the back burner because if it was put on the front burner and taken care of, I think a lot of these 00:35:11
issues would be alleviated. 00:35:15
And that you know, there goes for business owners as well, Jamie, and I think that's probably more under your umbrella than 00:35:18
anything, but. 00:35:21
Anyway, yeah. 00:35:24
Excuse me I was just wondering, do the Realtors have a public annual meeting or monthly meeting or anything like that? 00:35:26
I bet they do. I think there's a realtor. 00:35:36
Tapped into, I mean, I will say, you know. 00:35:42
From the. 00:35:44
A regulations perspective all of our ordinances related to historical preservation are available on our website and online. And 00:35:47
ignorance of the law does not necessarily forgive not. 00:35:53
Participating in that. 00:36:00
However, I totally hear what you're saying. I think it's a great idea. 00:36:02
I think we could work. 00:36:05
Collaboratively to create. 00:36:07
Said welcome packet and if the Realtors were. 00:36:09
On board then I think that would help us in disseminating. 00:36:13
OK, even if. Even if it's a link. Even if it's a link to. 00:36:17
Pieces that your office has. 00:36:22
Put on there and. 00:36:24
I mean, they're they. 00:36:25
They're extensive and they look good, and I think that that would be an easy way to handle it. 00:36:27
Welcome aboard and etc, OK. 00:36:32
Kelly yeah, that's great. Anything else? If there's anything else, let me know before I go before City Council to. 00:36:35
You know, I agree with Jamie though. 00:36:40
People need to be. 00:36:43
Proactive and look into it. 00:36:45
And but, you know, the city also has to kind of help them a little bit to educate them, but. 00:36:46
They do need to. 00:36:51
Know that there's guidelines and. 00:36:53
Be proactive. Yeah, OK, Just know that there are. 00:36:54
And take a look. 00:36:57
OK. So, yeah, I mean a couple of things. I think this is great. Thank you so much. I think this kind of charts the course for the 00:36:59
next year, which is. 00:37:03
Excellent. 00:37:07
One thing I I do, I wasn't at the last meeting and I just want to address. 00:37:09
The retroactive certificate of appropriateness. 00:37:13
So this is something that the Council codified a month or two ago. 00:37:17
I want to stress. 00:37:23
This is not. 00:37:24
A Fine. This is an opportunity. 00:37:25
If someone does work. 00:37:28
On the exterior of their building in the historic district. 00:37:30
I have the authority to do three things. 00:37:34
Stop work. 00:37:37
Tell them to take it down. 00:37:39
And issue a citation for them to appear in Municipal Court. 00:37:40
The judge can then make a ruling as to whether or not they spend time in jail. 00:37:44
Or pay $1000 fine. 00:37:48
What the retroactive certificate of appropriateness allows is. 00:37:51
Oh, sorry, you didn't do this application in advance of doing the work. 00:37:55
But rather than. 00:38:02
Stopping your assembled contractors. 00:38:03
Telling you to return it to. 00:38:05
Its original state and issuing A citation to you. 00:38:08
We are giving you the opportunity to retroactively apply. 00:38:11
I want to be very clear about that. 00:38:16
Because there was, I think at the last meeting, there was a little bit of confusion there. 00:38:19
Subsequently that retroactive. 00:38:23
Fee has been paid for. 00:38:25
So there are now $1000. 00:38:27
In your. 00:38:29
Kitty that can go to certain things and the office is about to. 00:38:30
You'll next month you will receive another retroactive certificate of appropriateness. 00:38:35
For a roof that was replaced on stable alley. 00:38:41
So I think it's working. 00:38:44
I think this is a very positive tool. 00:38:46
I think it's forgiving. 00:38:49
You know where it kind of, but it also does not. 00:38:51
Does not. It gives a discretion of. 00:38:55
If work is done that we really feel has. 00:39:00
You know, had an incredible impact. 00:39:04
On the character of the historic district. 00:39:07
Then we can be more punitive, such as a citation or. 00:39:09
Returning the structure to its normal. 00:39:13
State or stopping work. 00:39:15
But I think when it's. 00:39:17
Things that maybe you just didn't know. Maybe you just didn't know that replacing a roof would require a certificate of 00:39:19
appropriateness. And you. 00:39:23
That's exactly what happened on Stable Alley. You assemble A-Team, you have a contractor there, you got everything ready to go. 00:39:27
And rather than saying Nope, stop everybody, go home. 00:39:33
It was a OK. 00:39:36
Let's let's do this. 00:39:38
So I think, I think it's a great tool. 00:39:39
I know that there's been some confusion about it. 00:39:43
But but I think that that will be helpful for us. 00:39:46
Particularly with our historic marker. 00:39:49
Jimmy said the money that's in the bank right now is that's for Stable Alley. 00:39:52
No, that was for the pizzeria. 00:39:56
OK, have we gone anywhere with 401 W? 00:39:59
We have not. 00:40:02
Well, that's a we are ready and willing to issue a So the way that that shouldn't come from us, that should come from your office. 00:40:03
Yeah, it comes from. 00:40:06
So what it will be is it will be a notice of violation to the property owner. 00:40:10
And the corrective action on the notice of violation will be a retroactive certificate of appropriate. 00:40:14
OK. And it's not? 00:40:19
That we created a fee and now you have to pay us that fee retroactively. 00:40:20
No, this is an opportunity to avoid a summons to appear in Municipal Court. 00:40:24
And what about your pizzeria? 00:40:28
What about the roof on the pizzeria? 00:40:31
That has. 00:40:33
Has paid. 00:40:34
That was paid. That was paid. 00:40:35
OK, Yep. 00:40:38
Well, it gives people the opportunity to make things right when they didn't know they were doing wrong. And you know, it's the. 00:40:39
You know it's. 00:40:46
Educating people, that's a big part of the job. 00:40:47
Is to educate people and give them the opportunity to make it right. 00:40:50
Yeah. So I guess my question would be too is like I agree with you in your statement of like. 00:40:55
I guess it has to be fair across the board, so if like it was like an honest mistake. 00:40:59
They'll still pay the $1000, obviously. 00:41:03
Is there is there a situation to where they wouldn't have to pay? 00:41:08
The $1000? Not in my eyes, no. 00:41:11
OK, I mean again, I'm, I'm, I think. 00:41:13
I think something that the Commission needs to be very mindful of is that there are a series of recent acquisitions in the 00:41:16
historic district and those acquisitions will come with redevelopment. 00:41:21
Proposals. 00:41:27
And those redevelopment proposals? 00:41:28
Need to be within our existing guidelines. 00:41:30
And if I I know people will want. 00:41:33
To, you know, stick to the letter of the guideline in those instances. And I think we have to start. 00:41:36
Now, before that even comes to show that we're a fully assembled Commission. 00:41:42
You know, we're working on updating our ordinances and our guidelines. 00:41:47
And we're sort of, you know. 00:41:51
Offering this opportunity and ensuring that all buildings in the historic district adhere to. 00:41:53
OK, so no changes. 00:41:58
Anybody. 00:42:01
Nope, I think it was amazing. Thank you for joining. 00:42:02
So as written, that will be presented to City Council. 00:42:05
We'll we'll let you know the funds available. 00:42:08
$8 million. 00:42:11
Hey, you can do a lot with $8 million. 00:42:14
I hope we don't ever get a lot of money in that account. I'm just being honest. 00:42:19
We keep it very low. Yeah, yeah. 00:42:23
Because I don't like. 00:42:26
People having to spend money. 00:42:27
Right. 00:42:29
My other neighbor here. 00:42:31
So discussion regarding historic markers. 00:42:33
OK, so. 00:42:35
I have that presentation they're trying to make it really and I just want to like it would not be awkward if you 2 walked away 00:42:37
right now. 00:42:40
You're more than willing to say I mean. 00:42:43
You can definitely stay but. 00:42:45
Oh, OK, cool. OK. I just wanted. 00:42:47
It wouldn't be awkward. 00:42:49
That's what works. 00:42:52
Yeah, OK. So. 00:42:54
I've got this PowerPoint to. 00:42:57
This is a proposal. 00:43:01
For creating the. 00:43:02
Historic, uh. 00:43:08
Marker program or? 00:43:09
Recreating umm. 00:43:11
So we've had this discussion for how many meetings? 00:43:12
And so, several months ago I started doing some research. 00:43:15
On other cities, towns, communities within Georgia. 00:43:20
And and Charleston outside. 00:43:24
That have the historic. 00:43:27
Marker programs and what they do, so pretty much everything that we have discussed. 00:43:29
Is in here. 00:43:35
So including the QR code that I think Celinda. 00:43:37
First brought up months and months ago. 00:43:41
So really quick I just put everything down. 00:43:43
I also have with these towns and communities something that I had. 00:43:46
Printed out several months ago really quick and it's got the individual cities. This is just a few. 00:43:50
Of many, so if anybody wants to. 00:43:56
To look at this. 00:43:59
But if we. 00:44:00
Let me get my glasses on and look at this so I can make this as quick. 00:44:01
As and by the way, everything I'm saying is what we've discussed. 00:44:05
So again, just putting it into. 00:44:08
A proposal. 00:44:10
So on. 00:44:13
If we can change to slide 2. 00:44:16
Issues with existing historic property markers. 00:44:19
Historic markers currently in use in Saint Mary's. 00:44:23
Are of poor quality. 00:44:26
As we have seen walking and driving by. 00:44:29
Markers placed by owners. 00:44:32
Of newer homes. 00:44:35
Will end up adding. 00:44:37
New markers that are historic markers. 00:44:40
Of homes built as we will see in a minute, 20/17/2020. 00:44:43
The names displayed on existing markers sometimes fail to reflect and I think all of you all have a copy of this. I don't know if 00:44:48
you want to be. 00:44:52
Read with me. 00:44:56
Sometimes failed to reflect the property's history. 00:44:57
In #4 there. 00:45:00
Is no mean means of linking. 00:45:02
To additional information, meaning the QR code. 00:45:05
So if we can go to. 00:45:08
3 and here we have 3 examples. Two of the markers that are worn you cannot read. 00:45:11
And in the new house? 00:45:18
Which has the. 00:45:20
I think that's the new current. 00:45:21
Historic marker with the tree. 00:45:24
I don't I I'm not sure. I mean, I went through, I think we've all. 00:45:28
Done some Dr. bys and walk bys and it's all kind of. 00:45:32
Kind of different so. 00:45:37
If we can go to slide. 00:45:39
4 so. 00:45:41
We also all know that the. 00:45:43
The definitions of what makes. 00:45:47
A home historic comes from the Department of Natural Resources and the Department of Community Affairs. 00:45:49
Natural Resources said. 00:45:57
They give. 00:45:59
Three reasons or three? 00:46:00
Criteria. 00:46:03
Of what makes it historic. 00:46:05
It's a home is exemplary of a past era or architectural style to associated with historic events. 00:46:07
Or Persons 3A. 00:46:14
Site contributing to the historical or cultural heritage of the community. 00:46:16
The Georgia Department of Community Affairs. 00:46:22
Says age. 00:46:25
That it's of interest to historians or archaeologists. Integrity. 00:46:27
Retains original physical features and three significance. 00:46:32
And that is through association with people or events shaping history. 00:46:36
And it embodies physical features of historic significance. 00:46:40
So if we can go. 00:46:44
2/5 and this has to do with the. 00:46:46
And changes. 00:46:54
And there are. 00:46:56
4 criteria, the first one. 00:46:57
Is. 00:47:02
It is. 00:47:03
Proposed that the HPC. 00:47:04
Update. 00:47:07
The criteria for official historic markers. 00:47:08
And I'm going to say this and then I'm going to go back to it. 00:47:12
To include a minimum age of 100. 00:47:15
Years, so we'll go back to that. 00:47:18
In extraordinary cases, the HPC may at its discretion. 00:47:21
Allow exceptions to this. 00:47:26
In addition to that age requirement, one of two additional criteria would have to be met. 00:47:28
One is the property is directly associated with individuals, events, activities. 00:47:33
Or developments that shape. 00:47:39
Our history or that reflect important aspects. 00:47:41
Of our history #2. 00:47:44
The property has the potential to yield information. 00:47:46
Important to our understanding of the past through archaeological. 00:47:50
Architectural. 00:47:53
Or other physical investigation and analysis. 00:47:55
So going back to the age because I know that we've. 00:47:58
Talked about this. 00:48:01
The 1975. 00:48:02
And the 1986 they used the criteria. 00:48:04
In regards to age as 50. 00:48:08
Over 50 years old and beyond. Now if we go to the 1975 survey. 00:48:10
That took us in 1925. 00:48:15
100 years from today. 00:48:18
If we go to the 1986 that's 90, so that's 1936. So I think if we. 00:48:20
Say 100 years. 00:48:25
We have the exceptions that the HBT. 00:48:27
HP, HPC. 00:48:31
Can say OK this is something that. 00:48:33
That we will allow. 00:48:36
But you also have. 00:48:39
To have either one. 00:48:40
Or two. 00:48:43
Other criteria to work with that. 00:48:45
Yeah, I think the age. 00:48:49
And at one or two of those, right, I think that's the thing that makes it a full circle, yeah. 00:48:50
I'm not the smartest guy up here. I'm like probably the least smartest guy up here. So have a quick question. 00:48:56
So the Griffin. 00:49:00
2017. 00:49:01
So we. 00:49:03
Are we saying that would not be allowed or are we they can keep it because we're going to get to. 00:49:04
The next one we're going to have to. 00:49:09
To do yeah, because we can't, we can't tell people like they can put 2030. 00:49:11
Yeah, that's what they wanted to, right? Yeah, we were talking, saying, well, we can't make them take it down. 00:49:15
But OK, so then. 00:49:21
2 which is links to informative historical information. 00:49:25
That's the QR code. Each historic marker will include a QR code that links to a section of the city's website. 00:49:29
Featuring details on the. 00:49:36
Particular property and its historic significance. 00:49:38
Information on Saint Mary's history and a map. 00:49:41
For a self-guided tour with the locations of more properties. By the way, all of these programs have all of this the QR code, the 00:49:44
self-guided tour on the website. 00:49:49
3 Distinctive design, durable material. 00:49:54
So this. 00:49:57
Is a new professionally designed marker. 00:49:58
Should be immediately recognizable as part of the official program. This means that its appearance must be distinct from that of 00:50:02
the current historical historic markers. 00:50:07
Also, the new markers must be fabricated in a durable material. 00:50:13
That will remain colorfast and structurally sound overtime. 00:50:18
The last one is the promotion of the self-guided tour. 00:50:23
Of historic properties which links up back up to the QR code. 00:50:26
Consistent with its stated charge to quote enhance the town's historic attractions to tourists. 00:50:30
HPC should work closely with the Convention and Visitors Bureau. 00:50:38
Main Street office, the county Chamber of Commerce. 00:50:41
And other organizations to encourage them to promote a self. 00:50:45
Tour of historic properties. 00:50:49
So going to slide. 00:50:52
Six. Well, this is. 00:50:55
2nd to the last. 00:50:57
Application and approval process for markers. So all of this here I kind of gleaned from all the other historic. 00:51:00
Programs and just. 00:51:07
Put it here, kind of combined it and. 00:51:09
So a property owner must complete an application form and submit it to the HPC. 00:51:12
And it will include the following. 00:51:17
One is 1 or more clear photos of the property showing any relevant features noted in the application. 00:51:19
Two documented proof that the property meets the. 00:51:26
Historic marker. 00:51:29
Criteria. 00:51:30
3 proposed historic marker texts, for example, the name of the property. 00:51:32
And you're built and a draft of a property district. 00:51:37
Description to be a. 00:51:41
Accessible via a QR code. 00:51:42
The description should be a maximum. 00:51:45
Again, uh. 00:51:48
Kind of take him from some of these other programs. 00:51:49
Historic market programs. 00:51:53
Should be a maximum of. 00:51:54
400 words. 00:51:56
Which is about one tight. 00:51:57
Double space page. 00:51:59
And maybe the same Mary's planning department staff can provide assistance in what to include in the description. 00:52:01
So I think. 00:52:07
They will need help. 00:52:09
Yeah. You know, Kelly, I love this part of it because it's almost a chance for our homeowners to shine. 00:52:10
To let them shine by doing some of those things, some of the research and that. 00:52:16
Yeah, I like that. The other thing that I did have a question. 00:52:21
Quickly about with, you know, our street signs in the District, kind of. 00:52:24
Parallel with our markers. 00:52:28
And that's, I didn't know if that in your research if you found that that was another component that we could. 00:52:30
Add to it at those big crawl streets because they're in just about disrepair as well. So I didn't know if that was something that 00:52:36
we could add if you had seen that in the research or not. 00:52:40
Yeah, absolutely think so. 00:52:45
So 7, so the last. 00:52:48
Slide the most important one. 00:52:50
Trying to go as fast as I can because we have so much on here. 00:52:53
So the cost and installation of markers. 00:52:56
So that would have to be a one time design fee. 00:53:00
That the city would have to take on. 00:53:03
H guess the city. 00:53:05
The city will subsidized a portion of the historic marker. 00:53:07
And oversee production by the sign maker. 00:53:11
The applicants portion to be determined, I'm thinking from our discussions about the grant that we have and how we can use the 00:53:14
money we have. 00:53:18
So would determine what? 00:53:24
The applicant would. 00:53:25
Pay in what the city pays. 00:53:26
Must be paid prior to manufacture. 00:53:28
Of marker installation will be the responsibility of the homeowner. 00:53:32
And guidelines for placement location a method will be provided, which I think is what we discussed in. 00:53:36
The last time. 00:53:42
Potential installation by. 00:53:44
I don't even know if the city could even do that or not. We would give them the guidelines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is where you 00:53:47
yeah, where we where you put it. 00:53:50
And I think that Renee Villa with. 00:53:54
Villa with Dalton sign actually said I'd see up there where you say one time design fee. 00:53:57
I think she said once the. 00:54:02
Piece of generally designed. 00:54:03
And you know, obviously your home would look different than your home and. 00:54:05
Some of those that she said that it's really on a whole sheet. 00:54:09
Of material and that. 00:54:13
The design, once it's done, is not that big of a deal because when we talked originally, we were thinking it should just say 00:54:15
historic district or historic property. And then she said no, we can actually. 00:54:19
Detail it to the specific home and as long as it's on one sheet, the. 00:54:25
Cost to sort of minimize, yeah. 00:54:29
Or at least for the work. 00:54:32
Involved, right? And I want to add something to that too. Is like I I believe so how many? 00:54:34
Homes that we have and nobody is. 00:54:38
In 86, I mean, we're going way back. I read 65 or something. 00:54:41
That was 65, but I don't know, was that 20? I don't know if I was reading 22 or and then which ones meet the 80s six. 00:54:46
So we right because the reason is I say that. 00:54:53
My opinion of it is like two things. One, we should pay as much as possible. 00:54:56
And then two, we should go on the offensive and actually knock on these doors and say hey, like. 00:55:00
We have this program so that everybody. 00:55:05
You know, we can get everybody on board. 00:55:07
To actually so like one of the offensive and actually like. 00:55:09
Get in contact with these folks. 00:55:12
So. So I've got a question about that, I don't know what. 00:55:14
If this can come. 00:55:16
The city who it could come from, but. 00:55:18
Can we find those? 00:55:21
Historic Homes. 00:55:22
And mailed in the information. 00:55:24
Say, hey, this is. We are. We are. 00:55:27
You know. 00:55:29
Yeah, so we've got. 00:55:31
We've got like the, the the. 00:55:32
Historic home profile that we created for Mr. Dublock. 00:55:35
Came from. 00:55:39
Basically 2 resources that the city and the historic preservation has commissioned. 00:55:41
In the past, and that's a. 00:55:46
Historic resources inventory. 00:55:47
And so one was done in 1984 and all of those files. 00:55:50
Reside in our office. A lot of it went into the creation of this. 00:55:55
Of this web page which is a little bit. 00:56:01
Blah when you first arrive at it, but if you do the drop down you can get. 00:56:03
More information on each. 00:56:08
This is not as extensive as what? 00:56:10
We did on the housing. 00:56:12
The home profile because we combined. 00:56:14
Information from the two surveys. 00:56:16
But yeah, we we could totally do that. We have that information. I don't know the number of. 00:56:19
Uh, homes specifically or buildings off the top of my head, but. 00:56:25
Why not? I'm joking. I know, right? Somebody owned two homes up here, by the way. 00:56:29
Two of those homes on that list somebody owned. 00:56:34
So anyway, Dad said. I just wanted to. 00:56:39
Put all of this together, amazing talking about. So where do we go? 00:56:41
So where do we go from here? Because it's a proposal, an amazing proposal, so I think. 00:56:45
Yeah, I think a couple of things would be. 00:56:50
You know, I think it might be a good idea. 00:56:55
Active. Kind of. 00:56:58
You know, pair this down just a little bit and put it in front of other. 00:57:02
Owners of these properties in the just asking for some guidance or feedback or their thoughts on it. 00:57:08
I will. The next discussion item is about the HPC design guidelines which we have. 00:57:15
Of $15,000 grant for which we will match $15,000 in city time. 00:57:22
So those funds? 00:57:28
Can't go to this. 00:57:29
However. 00:57:31
The retroactive certificate of appropriateness funds. 00:57:32
Can go to this. 00:57:35
So yeah, you know, I think like kind of. 00:57:37
Working through. 00:57:39
What is the design that you want to see, you know, and then maybe. 00:57:40
Putting this out to a couple of, you know, key homeowners in the district or for some reason. 00:57:45
When you started talking about key homeowners and stuff like that, I wonder if. 00:57:51
If we. 00:57:55
Started with. 00:57:56
Our historic Rd. signs. 00:57:57
And then went to our churches and Orange Hall and started to see those new ones. Would it kind of spark the interest of our 00:57:59
homeowners? 00:58:03
Just say wait a minute. 00:58:08
How do I get one of those signs for my property? If baby steps and I'll leave that bridge. 00:58:09
Yeah, well, I think it's really important somehow to get it to each of them because if we want this to become a self-guided tour 00:58:15
for all the visitors and the tourists, which we have so many every day. 00:58:20
Well, maybe not right now. 00:58:25
But but but we want I would think like you said. 00:58:27
People want to. 00:58:32
Be a part of this they. 00:58:33
To have their. 00:58:35
Shine so and the QR code can. 00:58:37
That would update the houses. 00:58:39
Come on board, right? 00:58:42
Right, but the QR code would go to a website and that yeah, that's how we should. 00:58:43
Yeah, right. What we're thinking. And that's what all these other programs do. So it's, yeah, like they can go when someone can 00:58:48
research. 00:58:51
Saint Mary's and go to the self-guided tour. 00:58:55
And then? 00:58:58
All of that is under that, so they can start at any house and then. 00:58:58
Or or probably maybe OK, if you start here, you get the beginning, the 1803. 00:59:02
Are involved Clark house and then. 00:59:08
I think another good thing to do is. 00:59:10
You know, I don't know if you guys know about this website. 00:59:13
Or this? 00:59:18
Map but. 00:59:18
You know, getting getting back to your point earlier. 00:59:21
Kelly about the age so in our ordinance. 00:59:23
It's one of the criteria is 50 years. 00:59:27
But as you were saying, when you do new surveys and time passes. 00:59:30
More and more. 00:59:34
Things come under the 50 year framework, so I think. 00:59:35
You know, maybe a good next step at the next meeting we could. 00:59:39
I'm sorry, I don't know why this is taking so long to load. 00:59:43
Is to put forward. 00:59:46
A kind of a digest of our. 00:59:48
Guide of our ordinances for the district because there are implications you you can as a Commission. 00:59:53
Designate a structure historic. 01:00:00
You can designate a structure intrusive. 01:00:03
You can designate a structure non contributing. 01:00:06
And and. 01:00:09
Actions and certificate appropriateness. 01:00:10
Materials. 01:00:13
Vary based on those. 01:00:14
Based on those structural. 01:00:17
Distinctions. 01:00:20
So you know if you. 01:00:21
If you get down. 01:00:23
To the the downtown here. 01:00:25
And if you want to tinker with. 01:00:29
Some of these layers you'll see a couple of cool things. 01:00:31
The 1st and this is this is off our website. 01:00:36
For anybody who is interested. 01:00:38
You know, if you take off this zoning layer. 01:00:41
And you put on. 01:00:43
The district layer. 01:00:44
And you see, the orange represents the boundary of the district. 01:00:46
If you take off the district and you put on this historic district. 01:00:50
Parcel class. 01:00:54
This is very interesting and I think needs a little update. 01:00:56
So you'll see that the properties themselves or the. 01:01:00
You know, in the GIS world, we're. 01:01:04
We refer to them as the polygons of the properties. 01:01:06
They're color-coded. 01:01:10
So I think. 01:01:12
I'm not sure. 01:01:15
I think this was last done. 01:01:16
In probably. 01:01:18
2010. 01:01:21
We have to go back and sort of this is one thing that's kind of on our list of things to do, but. 01:01:22
You know, umm. 01:01:27
Gray is unknown, blue is historic. 01:01:28
Orange is historic obscured. 01:01:31
Yellow is an intrusion, pink is non historic, and then green is vague. 01:01:33
So. So what you're saying is if we don't? 01:01:38
Update uh. 01:01:41
The significant age and then those intrusions becomes historical. 01:01:42
I'm not sure and I think I think we have to investigate this a little bit more, but you know, I'll point to my own home on Wheat 01:01:47
St. which is labeled as non historic. 01:01:52
It was built in 1954. 01:01:57
I think it's quite a charming little example of that kind of. 01:02:00
You know, cement block design and it's pretty much. 01:02:04
The way it looked when it was built, I mean, with the exception of the garage and the front porch, but you know, I think like. 01:02:07
It's interesting to me that we may, as a Commission, want to revisit this list. 01:02:13
At a certain point in time so. 01:02:19
Yeah, just just just some thoughts. 01:02:21
You know, I really like the idea of looking at the street signs. 01:02:24
Right now. 01:02:30
The street signs in the historic district that they're. 01:02:31
Representative. 01:02:34
Streets throughout Saint Mary's. 01:02:36
With the white lettering. 01:02:38
And I'm wondering if. 01:02:40
For the historic. 01:02:43
Preservation District if those signs could be changed. 01:02:44
Like I've seen in other communities where. 01:02:47
The designation of those streets is white with a black. 01:02:50
Street. 01:02:54
Name on it so that people know that. 01:02:55
That this is something different. 01:02:58
And that would help delineate. 01:03:00
The area and then when that. 01:03:03
Those are up. Then we can start with the homes. 01:03:06
Rather than trying to do everything at once. 01:03:09
Colleen, I think the ones that I saw like an Aiken, it actually has the street name and then underneath it in much smaller letter 01:03:12
says. 01:03:16
Historic District. 01:03:19
I like that and so that's kind of a neat idea to. 01:03:21
Kind of. That would be nice to. 01:03:25
Incorporate that. 01:03:29
I don't know who pays for the. 01:03:31
Science. Just the city. 01:03:33
We do do that. 01:03:35
And I mean, I like the idea and we can continue to bat it around. I mean, some of them get a little wonky, like. 01:03:36
I'm on the South side of Weed tree and I'm in the district but the person across the street from me is not. 01:03:43
So it gets a little herky jerky. 01:03:48
You know all of Bryant St. is in the District. 01:03:50
You know quite a bit of Saint Mary. 01:03:53
Most, you know, there's just some. 01:03:56
All of Stable Alley, some quirks, Yeah, there's some quirky things there. But I think, yeah, all of these ideas are great. At 01:03:58
first I thought you were referring to the the, the. 01:04:03
The wooden. 01:04:07
They mimic the historic marker signs and they're in. 01:04:09
In the islands, they're in the island of. 01:04:12
Of Osborne those two, I think. 01:04:15
It would be a good idea to rehab those because they're so visible. They're they're high traffic. I just thought if we started with 01:04:18
that and maybe the. 01:04:21
Churches and some of the big stories that would be a good place to. 01:04:25
Start and then I mean, those homeowners are going to go, wait a minute, that's a historic. 01:04:29
Area. How can I get that and then? 01:04:33
Would kind of just naturally start. Do you guys have the money? We'll get people talking, so I'm joking. 01:04:36
Absolutely. Yeah. And also when the Realtors go. 01:04:41
Show a home that. 01:04:44
They'll know, Hey, they'll see the difference in the street sign and. 01:04:46
That that means something. 01:04:51
Excellent. 01:04:53
I don't know how much it would cost to do that or. 01:04:54
The time it would take to do that, if you have, I think we'll just have to kind of get started. 01:04:58
I mean from, you know, me touching base on this now. 01:05:02
Versus our very first conversation on this, this has evolved a lot. 01:05:05
And I think it's. 01:05:09
It's taking shape which is so nice so. 01:05:11
I have a question about. 01:05:14
The Walking tour, could we do like a little pamphlet or something also to put in the visitor center? 01:05:16
Yeah, I think, you know part of this. I think that. 01:05:23
Again, looking at the other towns of. 01:05:26
And communities with the program is they do you have to get the Commission and visitors Bureau involved. You've got to get that. I 01:05:29
mean you've got to get the Camden County of chamber and. 01:05:33
That is part of it is. Yeah, Ken, we have a pamphlet. 01:05:38
That when they arrive. 01:05:42
Take that or they can just go on to the website and they're. 01:05:44
You know, doing that with the phone, so. 01:05:47
I think so. 01:05:51
I mean just. 01:05:52
Yeah, seeing how others do it, yeah. Yeah, I think, I think there has to be. 01:05:53
Departments working. 01:05:57
Together. 01:05:58
And there's a lot of older people that don't use Q. 01:05:59
Your quotes I don't want to go online. 01:06:03
So we could have like little synopsis, yeah, or something, yeah. 01:06:05
Yeah, I mean just. 01:06:11
Just for everybody to know that the. 01:06:12
Tourism director is putting the finishing touches on the tour of historic homes, which I believe happens in November. 01:06:15
So it's now now as a prime time to. 01:06:21
You know, kind of engage that board and those. 01:06:25
Conversations. 01:06:27
And who does that again? I'm sorry, Jamie. Miss Angela Wigger. 01:06:29
She's our director of tourism. 01:06:33
OK. Thank you. 01:06:35
It should be on her website I think the the. 01:06:37
Her offshoot website is Visit St. Marys. 01:06:39
Probably is probably on there. 01:06:44
So you guys? 01:06:47
Yeah, want to move forward to the next discussion item or? 01:06:48
OK. So thank you, Kelly. We really appreciate you. 01:06:51
So he's right. District guidelines. Have a great day, Sir. 01:06:56
Thank you. Take care. 01:06:59
Yeah, let's let's talk about that so. 01:07:01
All right. Umm. 01:07:03
At least made copies for you of. 01:07:06
What's called a request for proposals. So. 01:07:10
I'm pretty sure you were. 01:07:15
You were engaged in the process of going after this grant. 01:07:17
To rewrite. 01:07:22
Our historic preservation. 01:07:24
District. 01:07:27
Design guidelines which are date back to. 01:07:28
1986 I think, can't quite remember. 01:07:32
So we got the grant, which is great. 01:07:36
And yes, I forget when these were done. 01:07:39
And so this RFP request for proposals is something that we would put out. 01:07:44
Or release. 01:07:51
Publish to interested contractors who have done and you'll see there's a there's a scope of work. 01:07:53
There's criteria for the submission and the proposal. There's a schedule. 01:08:00
You know, there's, there's firm qualifications and references and a proposed fee schedule and pricing. 01:08:05
So I would like for you to. 01:08:12
Avaloxi. 01:08:16
And give us any feedback that you may have. 01:08:18
And if you could do that within a week, that would be great. 01:08:22
As a. 01:08:26
Sort of form of guidance tomorrow morning we'll also share with you. 01:08:28
The request for proposals that the City of Douglas put out for rewriting their historic district design guidelines. 01:08:33
As well as some language from the Georgia Department of Natural Resources. 01:08:39
On creating design guidelines for historic district and I think with these before you, you can make. 01:08:45
Suggestions to the request for proposal? 01:08:52
So really. 01:08:54
The way that that will work is that the city will solicit. 01:08:56
Firms to bid on this as a contract. 01:09:00
Right. And then. 01:09:04
You know, you know. 01:09:06
We can. 01:09:06
Engage. 01:09:08
Property owners within the district to join. I know Miss K Westbury is very interested. 01:09:10
In engaging, I've also put out some feelers to Mr. Walter and his associates to see if they would be interested in engaging. 01:09:16
You know, we have a couple of firms that I think would do a great job. 01:09:24
I'm not real sure that the grants going to cover it, but we're going to. 01:09:28
We're going to try to. 01:09:32
See if we can get some interest in some. 01:09:34
Momentum so. 01:09:36
I think it's a really exciting time. 01:09:38
Some of the things, and you'll see some of that language in here and again. 01:09:40
This is like. 01:09:44
Fresh draft. I mean, I just looked at this for the first time today. 01:09:45
So but. 01:09:48
You know, we would still have somewhere to go, so don't feel. 01:09:49
Like you're hurting everybody's feelings to make suggestions. 01:09:52
And I think that the way that I see. 01:09:56
The work that comes before this. 01:09:59
Commission evolving is really. 01:10:01
The need for. 01:10:04
Whether we break things down by. 01:10:07
Certain types of buildings or certain facets of buildings you know you could do. 01:10:10
Certain architectural types. 01:10:16
You could do certain elements of buildings, whether it be. 01:10:18
Porches or. 01:10:21
Materials or windows? 01:10:23
Or rouges. You could look at landscaping and landscape elements. I mean, there's so many. 01:10:25
Possibilities, but I think. 01:10:30
What I want you to. 01:10:31
Keep in mind is that. 01:10:33
These guidelines should be a very. 01:10:34
Easy to use. 01:10:37
Tool for you all. 01:10:38
So when? 01:10:40
Renovation. Significant redevelopments. 01:10:41
Demolition, blighted properties, you know, that's something that. 01:10:43
These guidelines don't get to at all. 01:10:47
Right. But that that's going to happen soon. 01:10:49
And I think that we. 01:10:53
We should. 01:10:54
Feel like these guidelines are not. 01:10:55
Just. 01:10:58
Setting the expectation for property owners. 01:10:58
And new development, but also a tool that helps. 01:11:02
You all to be. 01:11:05
A little bit more facile in in design conversation. 01:11:07
So that's kind of the goal, Yeah, real quick conversation because I know we've been here a long time. 01:11:10
What is the difference between? 01:11:15
These guidelines. 01:11:18
And our ordinance, yeah, because it's a little bit confusing. I think when all of us started on the Historic Preservation 01:11:20
Commission, we were given the big notebook, or at least the big. 01:11:25
Paper and I think those are the those were our guidelines. 01:11:31
Well, there's there's two, so the Galen and associates on like. 01:11:34
Literally roller. 01:11:38
Print from 1986. 01:11:40
Those are your design guidelines. 01:11:42
OK, the the official ordinances that so if you go to the city's website, you navigate to community development. 01:11:44
You go to city ordinances. 01:11:52
And you find yourself in, I think it's, I think it's 62. 01:11:54
Chapter 62. Historical Preservation. 01:11:59
So this is the area where you. 01:12:02
All that language about. 01:12:07
How you amend the district? 01:12:09
How you recommend certain structures? 01:12:12
Get the. 01:12:14
Historic Classification. 01:12:15
You know, you're, you're basically how you operate as a Commission, what authority you have, what authority I have. 01:12:18
What a certificate of appropriateness is all about. Why you have to get one? 01:12:24
All of that guidance and language. 01:12:28
Including a very large section. 01:12:31
On signage. 01:12:34
Which is in here. 01:12:37
Those those are the things that. 01:12:39
Hold up in court. 01:12:41
These are the things that give. 01:12:42
Me, the authority as the development director to stop work. 01:12:44
To issue a citation. 01:12:48
The guidelines don't do that. 01:12:49
Guidelines are meant. 01:12:51
To help to steer you. 01:12:52
When new development or changes. 01:12:54
Alterations. Demolitions. 01:12:57
Come to the fore. 01:13:00
I think you just said the keyword those. 01:13:02
But those guidelines don't hold up in court. Those are guidelines. And so the problem comes in with so much new development coming 01:13:04
in and things like that. I mean, it's up to us and then. 01:13:09
We You know what happens if we. 01:13:14
Decline a COA and then they go to City Council and City Council approved. They can do that and that can happen. 01:13:17
Because of those guidelines, now if we ever wanted anything changed. 01:13:23
In chapter 62. 01:13:27
What do we do? 01:13:29
Well, so it would. So we've done it a lot recently with the Planning Commission and it's the same process. 01:13:30
So since you have jurisdiction and authority within this ordinance of Chapter 62. 01:13:36
We would work with you to identify any revisions that you want to make. 01:13:43
We would probably, in a few work sessions, come up with a redlined ordinance. 01:13:47
And then you would vote on. 01:13:52
Giving favorable recommendation of that amended ordinance to City Council. 01:13:54
And then we'd move it to City Council. 01:13:58
You know, probably I would do a work session with them as well. 01:14:00
And then they would. 01:14:03
They would vote to either adopt or adopt with amendments or. 01:14:04
Thank you. 01:14:08
Yeah, and I think, you know, there's a lot of stuff in here, you know, particularly around. 01:14:09
Signage. 01:14:14
You know, I know that we want to talk about. 01:14:15
Lighting, but you know I. 01:14:18
I caution you on that because I. 01:14:20
Several two years ago now, I I tried to hold these regulations. 01:14:22
To the fire and they burn up. 01:14:26
Cold. So I think you know you just. 01:14:29
We just have to be realistic about. 01:14:32
You know, we shouldn't have a set of regulations that we're not enforcing. Now we're using the term regulation. Are we talking 01:14:34
about Chapter 62? So you tried to hold up the neon sign? 01:14:40
And it. 01:14:46
Failed. Or were we just asked to? 01:14:48
Leave it alone. 01:14:50
Did it fail or were you asked to just leave it alone? Because I was asked to leave it alone. You know, the city took a bath over 01:14:51
social media trying to regulate it, but it's clearly in there, so, you know. 01:14:56
From from my perspective. 01:15:02
From my staff's perspective. 01:15:04
The last thing you want. 01:15:06
Is your enforcement team second guessing what they're supposed to be enforcing? 01:15:07
So if it's in there, it's enforceable. 01:15:12
If you don't want to enforce it, you got to take it out. 01:15:14
It's hard to do. 01:15:18
Well, OK, let's say that it's a process. It's a process. 01:15:19
But if it's in there. 01:15:22
And they're out of line, then we should be able to say Chapter 62 said that's an ordinance that's. 01:15:25
What I would recommend. 01:15:31
Is that members of? 01:15:33
This Commission, you all. 01:15:34
Have conversations with City Council. 01:15:36
OK, because that's where it really that's where it went awry. 01:15:38
So I think that we said we're not going to follow. 01:15:42
An ordinance. 01:15:47
The body council did not explicitly say that, but they also didn't come out and say Director Sign is following the ordinance. 01:15:49
Pretty much back, but I remember that. I remember that experience. 01:15:55
I and I saw the bloodbath on social media. 01:15:59
I think the. 01:16:01
I'm just going to say. 01:16:03
I think there's, you know. 01:16:04
I mean, just because it's in there. 01:16:05
There's some circumstances like everything is not going to be enforceable. 01:16:08
Like there is just the politics of it. 01:16:12
Like in I disagree about that. I mean, but I'm saying like, yeah, the City Council with the City Council said, I mean, there's 01:16:14
been a couple of times where they've. 01:16:18
Gone back and said no, we're going to do that. 01:16:22
So we have an ordinance that's upheld by that can be upheld by the law, and our City Council can say we're not going to follow the 01:16:24
ordinance. 01:16:28
Is that what you just said? Yes. 01:16:32
I mean, because at the end of the day, they're. 01:16:34
If the people, I mean, they still represent the people. I think it's a conversation and I think you know when. 01:16:36
When development pressures are not intense. 01:16:42
In our historic district. 01:16:46
We may feel as though we can. 01:16:48
Work. 01:16:51
Within around. 01:16:52
The guidelines, but when development pressures start to become intense. 01:16:54
That's not a good position to be in. 01:16:59
Yeah, that's why I think we're working on them right now is probably important. 01:17:01
And can we can we give ourselves a? 01:17:05
An assignment and say over the next. 01:17:08
Two months because I know Thanksgiving and Christmas is coming. 01:17:10
If each of us. 01:17:14
Take a look at. 01:17:15
62. 01:17:17
And look at the ordinances and kind of. 01:17:18
Like make notes of OK maybe we need to. 01:17:20
Further discuss this, maybe there might. 01:17:23
Be some changes or maybe? 01:17:25
No, this definitely needs to be here, but. 01:17:27
Knowing that the current HPC as far as City Council is concerned. 01:17:29
That we back. 01:17:34
I mean we put. 01:17:35
You know, yeah, our. 01:17:36
We back up the ordinances as they are and it's not something that. 01:17:39
That has just. 01:17:44
Followed year after year after year. 01:17:46
No, this is it. This is an ordinance. It's a rule and. 01:17:50
We expect. 01:17:53
For City Council to back. 01:17:54
Well, if I may say, it's not just St. Mary's, it's every community that it happens in. 01:17:56
Trust me, I know. Yeah, I mean, and I and I think there's room for some leniency here. I mean, I remember the neon sign 01:18:02
conversation. Several people told me that neon signs are part of Saint Mary's historic character. So. 01:18:09
Hey, I don't really know. I'm just a transplant and what I got to go by is the ordinance, right? So, yeah. 01:18:16
You know, I think that's the most important part. 01:18:21
Is if it's there and it's on the books. 01:18:24
The minute somebody comes and complaints to me, it's right there in the ordinance. Why are you not enforcing it? 01:18:27
I got nothing to say. The research comes in too because yeah, maybe neons were part of, you know, back in the 20s or whatever. So. 01:18:34
So when we are looking at it. 01:18:39
We need to do our own research and see if Savannah's guidelines say there's neon and there's new neon, and that's a very. 01:18:44
Clear the division of things, but it's just really hard for me to understand how we. 01:18:52
How we find somebody? 01:18:58
We find somebody for not. 01:19:01
Following procedures and then there's other people that. 01:19:03
Aren't following procedures and were asked. 01:19:06
I think when you stand back, yeah, I mean. 01:19:09
But listen, I was there when Jamie got eaten alive. 01:19:12
I survived and social media and and the city and it's. 01:19:16
It's just very hard. I mean, if we don't feel like. 01:19:22
The neon is an issue. Let's. 01:19:24
Visit the ordinance and let's check it out. That's right, yeah. But along with that, there's some other things in there that have 01:19:26
got to be put in place. 01:19:30
And it's just odd to me that we have. 01:19:34
Section 62 and. 01:19:37
80% of it is signage. 01:19:38
And it's such a small piece of what if you go back to my report for City Council? 01:19:41
It's on there once. 01:19:46
I mean, there's so many other things on there that are that are more important than, but if we're, if we're going to start finding 01:19:47
people, people are going to look at her and go no. 01:19:51
Not paying $1000 fine for this you. 01:19:55
40 people here breaking. That's the problem. 01:19:58
Well, I mean to be to be clear, I guess the. 01:20:00
The staff is exercising. 01:20:04
Quite a bit of. 01:20:09
What's the word I want to use here? 01:20:13
You know there there are many. 01:20:15
Things that are in violation of the ordinance, but really the only thing that we're going after. 01:20:18
With the retroactive certificate of appropriateness. 01:20:23
Is if something was like a. 01:20:26
A large material change. 01:20:28
A roof, a story, you know, like these are significant things. It's not just, you know, so so I mean, I think. 01:20:30
It would be wise to also. 01:20:37
You know, just just normal updates to this ordinance are needed anyways. 01:20:39
Whether or not you want to totally overhaul the signage and we would support you in doing that in the way that staff does that, 01:20:44
you know, facilitate that process. 01:20:47
I'm gonna look at it too, yeah. 01:20:51
But yeah, great question, so. 01:20:54
What we have the grant for is the design guidelines. So if you could please have a look at that draft RFP, we'll send that to you 01:20:56
digitally as well as the Douglas. 01:21:00
Request for the City of Douglas. Request for proposals. 01:21:05
And that resource from the Georgia Department of Natural Resources, Jim, you'll be sending those via e-mail, please. 01:21:08
And please, again, be careful when you're replying. Do not reply to all or do not reply with the quorum. 01:21:14
Be careful with Roberts Rules on that. Yeah, I did not realize that till Page mentioned that. I am sorry. I should have said that 01:21:20
to you all. I never buy all mentioned it and we have a tendency to hit reply to all and we just got to be very careful if we're 01:21:26
going to do that. They need to be in work sessions or in meetings. 01:21:31
And the one thing I'll say too is the one thing I want to do is like. 01:21:36
I'm going to do a better job at. 01:21:41
Is there's so much work to be done? 01:21:43
Yeah, so working with the city. 01:21:46
To to make sure that we like. 01:21:47
Because you can get like in this process and we were there for a little bit, but I think we started moving really fast. 01:21:50
But I think we just got to like maintain everything. Like there's a lot of stuff to do. 01:21:55
Yeah, slide this chapter 62 this RFP the. 01:21:59
They're like one thing at a time, like, you know, moving multiple things at a time. 01:22:02
And one thing that I wanted to bring to your attention, which is along the lines of. 01:22:05
The guidelines and sort of your jurisdiction and also very much in keeping with the annual report goal of you know, knowing and 01:22:10
working with. 01:22:14
The city in my office on. 01:22:18
You know, developments within the historic district. 01:22:21
On November 3rd, City Council will. 01:22:25
Review and render a decision on. 01:22:28
A request for proposals for the adaptive reuse of 102 W Saint Mary St. 01:22:32
The Submarine Museum. 01:22:38
So this request for proposals, we just polished it up. 01:22:40
You know. 01:22:46
Georgia law prohibits the city from entering into. 01:22:49
Real estate transaction directly with the private developer, so the city signed an Interment. 01:22:52
Intergovernmental agreement. 01:22:57
With the Camden County Joint Development Authority. 01:23:00
A little bit ago this. 01:23:02
Request for proposals, which will again go out to private consultancies for potential. 01:23:05
Adaptive reuse and redevelopment. 01:23:11
Submissions and so the details are within this proposal. 01:23:14
Council will hear this. 01:23:18
On November 3rd and you know anything that does happen on that property. 01:23:22
Comes before you the RFP. 01:23:27
Kind of details that process. It details the zoning, It also gives a nice. 01:23:30
Sort of synopsis about the history of the structure. 01:23:35
So we can also share this with you. 01:23:39
That you're keeping, you know, on top of all those things. 01:23:42
Nice. Yeah. And I was going to ask so the. 01:23:47
Do we already? Do everybody feel comfortable with the exterior lighting? Do we? 01:23:50
Is there? Does that need to be discussed? 01:23:54
With a what? 01:23:55
The exterior lighting. 01:23:56
Or is that? No, I think no, I think it's just a. 01:23:58
It's. I would encourage you to read. 01:24:03
Chapter 62 and see where you think. 01:24:06
62. 01:24:10
I have read it and read it and I and I think Jamie's tired of hearing me my snippets of it. The bottom line is y'all it talks 01:24:12
about uplighting and down lighting and lighting over sidewalks and. 01:24:18
It never discusses the things that. 01:24:24
I wished it did. 01:24:26
You know, white lighting is very, very. 01:24:28
Quaint and nice in the District. There's nothing in there that says it has to be white. It does. There's nothing in there says it 01:24:30
can't flash and blink and. 01:24:34
Have strobe lighting. There's there's just nothing in 62 that says that. I wish that we could change that a little. I'm not asking 01:24:38
for. 01:24:42
Hard guidelines, but if just some consistency, but until 62 gets changed there's. 01:24:46
We can change it, there's nothing but. So again, that kind of goes back. I mean, maybe we should all. 01:24:51
Take a look at it. I think that's it would be very smart if we proposed. 01:24:56
Revisions to the ordinance, Chapter 62, which talked. 01:25:01
To the new guidelines. 01:25:05
We're going to need a working session on that too. Is like. 01:25:06
But I think Kelly's right. Yeah, one question. But I think if we. 01:25:09
Each took a chunk of it and reported on it. So we're not. 01:25:12
Sitting here for. 01:25:15
An hour and a half. 01:25:16
How many pages is it? 01:25:19
But a lot of the a lot of it doesn't need to be changed. A lot of it are. 01:25:23
Our quality, good guidelines, there's just some in there that. 01:25:27
It doesn't look that long. I mean, we can. 01:25:31
If you you can. 01:25:34
You know, we'll, we'll help you. Just just. 01:25:36
Take a gander. I think we should just take you through and make some. 01:25:38
Changes on it and bring the red marker. I think the more we can give it to if we can give, if we can give it to City Council. 01:25:41
If we give it the City Council with all the changes that we want for like a phase for like a year or two. 01:25:48
And there's probably going to be more successful. 01:25:53
Because they can just go through and. 01:25:55
You know, put the onus on them to review it. 01:25:57
Yeah, what could that Jamie's last? Yeah. All right. 01:26:00
OK, cracking. 01:26:05
Are we going straight to Kraken? We can. 01:26:06
The development authority of Saint Mary's, which was sort of behind the funding and moving that forward. 01:26:09
The wind has been removed from the sails. 01:26:16
So it's kind of a. 01:26:18
Kind of stalled right now. 01:26:20
So why is that? 01:26:22
Yeah, you know, honestly. 01:26:23
I don't think that we can, you know, and I'm just. 01:26:26
Being straight right now. 01:26:29
I don't think we can baby proof that. 01:26:31
I think that the. 01:26:34
The security concerns and looking at reduction of speed limit which we. 01:26:35
Can't really regulate anything below 25 miles an hour. 01:26:40
We're not going to be able to make it foolproof. 01:26:43
And I don't. 01:26:46
I don't really know where. 01:26:47
Council lies on that, our last discussion. 01:26:49
Wanted to revisit it and when I relayed that to DASM. 01:26:52
2000 just kind of put their hands up, so I don't know what it's going to take to get it. 01:26:56
I think maybe the city should look at Stable Alley. 01:27:02
On the. 01:27:05
East Side and. 01:27:06
Blocking part of that off is, if I may speak on that, that was one of my recommendations when I spoke to City Council on this 01:27:08
matter and. 01:27:12
I think Mayor Lockhart was very clear that some of the news development going on in the Marina. 01:27:17
Redirect of traffic made that I'm not a possibility. 01:27:22
But it was something that. 01:27:25
I don't, I just. 01:27:27
Seeing Aiken's alleyway, that was so lovely and. 01:27:28
And have the parklets and things like that. 01:27:32
There, that road is going to be a major there. They can't make that turn with anything in that area. So that got that got squashed 01:27:35
down, but we did open it up for. 01:27:40
So yeah. 01:27:44
I think that would have been. 01:27:46
Great alternative. I know the wind's been taken out of the sales show. I still have to tell you, I know Jimmy's worked really hard 01:27:47
with them, but I I think it's a win for our city that that's. 01:27:52
Quiet it down for right now. I was. 01:27:57
Very concerned. I have lived here a very very long time. 01:27:59
I know what goes on on those streets and I think while it's a beautiful and quaint idea, I think it was, I think it was dangerous. 01:28:02
So it is narrow. 01:28:10
Yeah, I mean it's. 01:28:15
Is hard. I mean it would be nice to have I I see the beauty and I guess. 01:28:16
See the vibrancy of it but. 01:28:20
I did. I did send something to Jamie that. 01:28:23
There was a map. 01:28:26
Yes. 01:28:27
That actually. 01:28:28
Tom and Beverly Cypress have a copy of this map and. 01:28:30
Very interesting that the area helped me with my streets. 01:28:33
From uh. 01:28:37
Kraken to. 01:28:38
Here, Bryant or Dillingham? 01:28:41
A closed. 01:28:45
City Park. 01:28:46
There was number parking. I mean there was number driving through that area. 01:28:47
I don't know what the what the part, but you know, it was actually you drove around and that was a park area with a huge fountain 01:28:51
in it at one point and here. 01:28:56
Yeah. And so. 01:29:01
Yeah, we could. 01:29:03
I don't know. I think I think if you ever want to, if you ever want to have people sitting in areas and in the and slowing the. 01:29:04
The flow of traffic in this area, that might be something to revisit at some point. Can we do that? Very pretty, yeah. 01:29:12
I think, yeah, yeah, I think, I think it would be a very long conversation with our downtown merchants. 01:29:19
Yeah, I just wanted to say my oldest son was in town visiting. 01:29:25
And, umm. 01:29:30
He likes iced coffee and we went to Kraken the other day and they did have some tables out with some umbrellas. 01:29:32
On the sidewalks, so they. 01:29:38
Are getting a little bit of outdoor space so. 01:29:40
May just be mute at this point. 01:29:44
You know, for all the reasons I think it's going to go for. 01:29:47
Eventually. 01:29:51
All right, the last thing I have for you, I know you want to go home, but I just want to put it on your radar and probably next 01:29:52
month. 01:29:55
We'll discuss it again. 01:29:59
The mayor has asked that I. 01:30:01
Engage professional professionals to do a parking study. 01:30:05
For downtown. 01:30:09
So that will be another request for proposals that comes forward. 01:30:10
You know, I'm hoping not paid there. Not like Fernandina Beach not. 01:30:16
No, we're nowhere near. We're nowhere near that. Those things happen. 01:30:22
Like I've been trying to. 01:30:26
Kind of explained that. 01:30:28
Cities will go through development patterns. 01:30:29
Which scale up to that. 01:30:32
Need, yeah. 01:30:35
But the first? 01:30:36
Kind of step is. 01:30:38
What are the appropriate uses in public parking spaces? And then we have to kind of. 01:30:39
Scale and then a lot of cities like the city of New Haven. 01:30:44
You know, they could never really meet their. 01:30:47
Off street parking requirements, so there were many variances that were granted. 01:30:50
And then that puts pressures on. 01:30:55
You know, umm. 01:30:57
Residential areas where there's commercial activity and someone who lives in an apartment can't find a place to park, right. So 01:30:58
these are just. 01:31:02
These are like steps in the city's development process, and that step is. 01:31:07
Yeah, we're not there, you know, we're over here. I just want to say something. I want to ask Julia, because you. 01:31:11
You've lived downtown. 01:31:17
Pretty much all your life. 01:31:19
During the day, I mean, it's like. 01:31:21
Lots of empty parking spaces and the only time is 4th of July. Scarecrow where I mean. 01:31:23
Medians are just full but. 01:31:29
I'm just hoping that doesn't mean. 01:31:32
Trying to add more. 01:31:34
Parking because during the day we. 01:31:36
Tons of parking. 01:31:38
Stretched out so I don't know what is your thought those are scenarios for. 01:31:40
And I've never not found parking when I. 01:31:45
Come down here for anything. 01:31:48
I think that is. 01:31:50
You've been here for a long time, but. 01:31:52
When I was stationary in 2002. 01:31:53
Like it was never busy down here. 01:31:57
And now like it's a lot easier than what it used to be. So I think eventually it will become and I think it really, really busy. 01:31:59
Block per block in the next 5 years probably. The waterfront is. 01:32:04
I mean, we're in pretty good shape. 01:32:08
Sometimes around the school, yeah, it gets a little City Hall seems to be pretty good. 01:32:10
And now we do have the parking being taken away from the ferry folks. Well, not right now again. 01:32:14
But that is being taken away, so they are using in the boats. 01:32:21
Who are going to the boat ramp? They are taking up space, which I think is what Greg probably is really. 01:32:24
Experiencing during that time again, not right now, the last. 01:32:30
A couple of weeks because we don't have the ferry going. 01:32:35
But it seems to be more of a mess and parking. 01:32:37
Centered there because that. 01:32:41
Parking for the ferry guests. 01:32:43
Has not been here. 01:32:46
Yeah. But anyway, I'm sorry, I just wanted to these are these are all good things. So we'll keep you involved in that process as 01:32:48
well. 01:32:51
Yeah, I was actually wondering what they were doing with the ferry parking. 01:32:56
I noticed it was sort of, it used to just sort of be a natural. Yeah. So there's space, so some previous pavers and there's a lot 01:33:01
of stormwater detention that's underground. That's why they had to kind of look. 01:33:06
Federal money. 01:33:11
But my understanding is that they will reestablish the parking with. 01:33:14
Previous papers and. 01:33:18
Maybe at a future date we'll put up a wall. 01:33:20
OK. Thank you. 01:33:23
Anymore. 01:33:26
Any more questions or concerns? 01:33:28
This is a really good meeting. 01:33:31
So what do you think about going home? 01:33:33
Motion to adjourn. We have a second. 01:33:34
I second that motion. All in favor. 01:33:38
All right. 01:33:41
Unanimous. 01:33:42
Am I supposed to do this? 01:33:44
Oh, I don't know, I just. 01:33:45
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207 Ready St - COA Application General Document
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Transcript

Event transcript
I do have. 00:00:00
So glad. 00:00:02
Oh, that is great. 00:00:05
Powerful. 00:00:12
Look at that, I feel like I'm swimming in time. 00:00:15
All right, five more seconds, I think, or. 00:00:19
Has to be 5 seconds like. 00:00:24
Looks so clumsy. 00:00:28
All right. 00:00:29
All right, here we go. 00:00:31
All right. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the 28 October. 00:00:33
2025 Historic Preservation. 00:00:37
Council meeting. 00:00:39
We want to make sure our mics are all turned on. 00:00:40
All right, And we're just going to do a roll call. We'll start to our left and work our way to the right. 00:00:44
Colleen, Dan. 00:00:50
Kelly Knapp. 00:00:52
Melvin Taylor. 00:00:54
Julia McCullough. 00:00:55
Cynthia Talbot. 00:00:57
All right, it looks like we have a quorum for tonight. 00:00:59
And we want to just start with the city to see if there's any initial comments. 00:01:01
Thank you, Commissioners, and thank you to the public who is joining us. I think you can all hear me. 00:01:06
I'm Jamie, the Development Director for the City, and I will be with you in the interim. 00:01:13
I think you now know that we are Mr. Tate McMahon is no longer employed. 00:01:19
With the city, so at least will become the. 00:01:25
The point person and the staff person for the Commission. 00:01:28
And I'm here just kind of in a back. 00:01:32
Backup role. She's done some really great things. I think you'll see them this evening in the presentation. 00:01:33
Hey, Elise, welcome. 00:01:41
I mean, I know you've been here forever, but welcome. 00:01:43
You're awesome. We really look forward to working with you in every capacity that we get. 00:01:46
So thank you. 00:01:51
And so we're going to move on to the the approval of the minutes from the 23 September. 00:01:52
2025 Meeting. 00:01:58
We received that via e-mail. 00:02:00
Do we have a motion for that? 00:02:02
Motion to approve September's minutes. 00:02:04
2nd. 00:02:07
You guys have to fight over it or something's going to happen here, I don't know. 00:02:09
I second it. All right, all in favor say aye. 00:02:15
Aye. 00:02:18
All right. Looks like we have a unanimous approval for that. 00:02:18
OK. It doesn't look like we have any old business. 00:02:23
This month. 00:02:26
So new business. 00:02:28
Are we doing? 00:02:30
The windows. 00:02:31
That is on the agenda as the the second discussion item. 00:02:34
OK, second discussion item. 00:02:39
Will take on the certificate of appropriateness 27. 00:02:40
OK, yes. So whoever the representative is for 2:07. 00:02:44
Ready Street if they could come up and state their name and their address. 00:02:49
Oh, did we not approve the agenda? I'm so sorry. 00:02:54
Before we no you come back, you can stay, Sir. 00:02:57
So we do have to approve the agenda. 00:03:01
Do we have a motion for that? 00:03:03
Make a motion to approve the agenda. 00:03:05
A second all in favor, say. 00:03:08
Aye. 00:03:11
All right. Looks like we have a unanimous vote for that or approval for that. 00:03:12
Sorry about that. 00:03:16
She always keeps me honest. 00:03:19
Yes Sir. So if you could please state your name and your address. 00:03:21
Sure. My name is Henry de Bloch. 00:03:24
Newly arrived resident at 207 Reddy St. 00:03:27
Welcome. Thank you. 00:03:30
All right. And what we usually do is we just do a quick walkthrough of the. 00:03:32
Kind of what you want to do. 00:03:36
And it will. 00:03:37
Ask some questions and then we vote on it. 00:03:38
Sure. 00:03:41
We are seeking. 00:03:42
Historical Society preservation approval for a pool. 00:03:43
In our backyard. 00:03:48
And. 00:03:49
I guess the basics are. 00:03:50
It's a built-in pool and it would be. 00:03:53
A company with a pool deck. 00:03:57
With natural stone. 00:03:59
Right. Yeah. 00:04:02
And I can get into more details. 00:04:04
I think Elise has put together some of your materials in this presentation. So I have the stone here. I have your site plan here. 00:04:07
We got an aerial of the of the home. 00:04:13
So what you're seeing on the on the right hand side of the screen is ready St. and the. 00:04:15
The parcel runs that way, so. 00:04:20
Maybe if you want to just. 00:04:23
Walk through. 00:04:24
A couple notes that. 00:04:27
The backyard is completely. 00:04:29
Obscured from the street. 00:04:32
You wouldn't. 00:04:34
You wouldn't even know we had a backyard. 00:04:35
So, you know, in terms of the pool. 00:04:38
It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be something you would see. 00:04:41
That being said. 00:04:45
You know, we went with natural stone Gray. 00:04:46
Which is uh. 00:04:49
We feel like appropriate for. 00:04:51
You know the pool travertine is. 00:04:54
Not something I'm used to, but it seems like everybody. 00:04:57
Does it down here so. 00:05:00
And the pool is a. 00:05:02
It you know 16 by 32 is the dimensions and the pool deck is. 00:05:05
It pretty much comes. 00:05:10
Towards the back of the house and towards the road off the. 00:05:14
Is long ways. The pool would be long ways I should say. 00:05:18
In the backyard. 00:05:23
Well, First off, I'm really jealous about this situation right now. 00:05:24
But we'll go to the city. Does the city have any comments on it? 00:05:28
So Elise has prepared a staff report for you, which is I think kind of a new addition to your Commission. It's something that we. 00:05:32
Do pretty regularly in the Planning Commission and we'd like to bring it. 00:05:40
To to this Commission as well. 00:05:44
Mr. Debloc, if you just want to discuss some of your fencing material. 00:05:48
Sure, the. 00:05:51
The fence that we have now is. 00:05:53
Would be. 00:05:56
I remain unchanged. It's a. 00:05:58
It's a picket fence. 00:06:01
Yeah, I it's probably 3 feet, so it's a little guy. 00:06:02
The the fence. 00:06:07
That would the pool fence per se would be. 00:06:09
Would be white picket but it would obviously not be a three foot fence. It would be. 00:06:13
We have. 00:06:20
We're going to go with a white picket. That would just be. 00:06:22
Taller. And we do have the Gray, the black. 00:06:25
Traditional pool fence and that's more. 00:06:31
For the neighbor. 00:06:33
Because. 00:06:34
Yeah. 00:06:37
Line that's quite tall, probably. 00:06:38
10 feet high and thick. 00:06:40
And you would not be able to see the black fencing at all. 00:06:42
So we figured it would be. 00:06:46
Better for the neighbor to. 00:06:50
You know not see a fence, although you know if you walk up to it you would see it in like underneath the. 00:06:52
The tree Bush. 00:06:58
Stuff. But that's why we had one section. That was why. 00:06:59
OK, great. 00:07:03
Great. 00:07:05
Yeah, the beautiful property that you have. 00:07:09
Thank you. Yeah, and just. 00:07:12
Appreciate all the hard work you put into this and. 00:07:15
All the details, sketches and information it was. 00:07:18
Really helpful to me personally to understand what you were trying to do. 00:07:22
Appreciate it. 00:07:26
Yeah. 00:07:27
All right. Do we have any, do we have any discussion from the board? 00:07:32
I think it sounds great. 00:07:37
OK. Thank you. 00:07:38
All right. Do we want to make a motion? Do we have any further questions? 00:07:41
Can we just ask is the type 1 and type 2 on the fencing is that? 00:07:45
Are you going to make that decision or is that in two separate places? Maybe I missed that piece. I'm sorry. 00:07:49
It says type 1 black aluminum, then type 2 white. Final picket. 00:07:54
Yes, the two types are. 00:07:58
The. 00:08:01
The black aluminum. 00:08:03
Would be. 00:08:05
Along the property line to our neighbor. 00:08:06
I don't. I don't know the neighbors name. So you'll be using both of those. We don't have to. 00:08:11
We we could. 00:08:17
But we thought it would be better. 00:08:18
If I was them. 00:08:20
I probably did like want to see it the way it is. Still OK. 00:08:21
Thank you. 00:08:24
Just a few if I could interject so. 00:08:27
The final recommendation here from the staff does have kind of three conditions of approval. Staff recommends approval. 00:08:29
All work shall comply with applicable zoning, Building permit and IPMC requirements. So the pool when you go for your building 00:08:36
permit, it will be required to be fenced in. 00:08:41
So we can have that discussion when you go to pull the permit. 00:08:45
The applicant shall confirm the location and design of the white vinyl picket fencing. 00:08:49
To ensure consistency. 00:08:54
With existing St. visible fencing. 00:08:56
We got that right, right that the. 00:08:58
Aluminum will be along the the fence line to the north adjoining the neighbor. 00:09:00
And then that there is a strip. 00:09:06
Kind of that would be to the side of the house here. 00:09:09
That would be white pick and that would be white. 00:09:12
So we're confirming that in the discussion. 00:09:14
And then if you do have any significant modifications to the design, just reach out and we can. 00:09:17
Work to assist with that. 00:09:22
Just as a note, one thing that we want to kind of. 00:09:24
Get into everybody's mind is that certificate of appropriateness has come with a six month. 00:09:27
Kind of time stamp on them. 00:09:33
So if you run into a point where you need an extension, you can reach out to the office. 00:09:34
And we can, I don't think. 00:09:39
I don't think. 00:09:41
A year out has to go before the. 00:09:42
Commission. 00:09:45
I can check on that, but six months try to get it done. If not you can do an extension. 00:09:48
I have a question on that actually. Yeah, I know we're. 00:09:53
Kind of regrouping on some things, but. 00:09:55
They have to be complete within a six months where they start with start. 00:09:57
Start work OK, Start within the system, Scotty. 00:10:00
Yep. OK. And there is an opportunity to extend because things come up, you know, it might be. 00:10:02
So but. 00:10:07
Keeping that in mind. 00:10:09
Thank you. Yeah. 00:10:10
We're learning together. 00:10:11
Did the contractor excuse me? 00:10:13
Did the contractor give you an estimate on the time frame? 00:10:16
From start to completion. 00:10:19
He he did. He was, you know, as. 00:10:22
Upon approval, all the approvals. 00:10:26
He. 00:10:28
Indicated that. 00:10:28
It would be done by. 00:10:30
The spring. 00:10:32
There's there's. It takes months from what I understand. 00:10:34
Cement has to cure the. 00:10:38
Gunite or whatever, uh. 00:10:40
It's called. 00:10:42
And, umm. 00:10:43
And then they they do it in stages. 00:10:44
So we were. 00:10:46
Banking on it being. 00:10:48
You know, ready to go. 00:10:50
For hopefully the summer. 00:10:51
Is it going to be a? 00:10:53
I type. 00:10:57
Pool or? Yeah, OK. 00:10:58
That's the plan. 00:11:02
Lastly, this is for you, Mr. 00:11:05
The block we're we're instituting, I think something else that's a little bit fun and I'll give the. 00:11:08
A couple of copies to the Commission so at least was able to generate what we're calling this historic home profile. 00:11:13
Which takes the information from our 1984 Historic Resources Survey. 00:11:21
And the more recent 2022? 00:11:26
And kind of, you know, puts it together for you to know just a little bit of the history if you didn't know it already. 00:11:29
So it's a nice, it's a nice kind of. 00:11:35
You know, it's just a little token. I really appreciate it and I know the. 00:11:38
Original purchase price of 267. You knew that I didn't know that that's a better deal and I love that the bit about it was. 00:11:42
Purchased by the wife, but the the husband was the boat captain of the Hildegarde. Like really cool. 00:11:52
Thank you very much. You're welcome. Really cool. Appreciate it. 00:11:59
At least I have to just say like this is insane. I know what is going on here. 00:12:02
Awesome. Thank you for that. 00:12:08
So is there any more discussion on the board for? 00:12:11
Do we? Do we have a motion? 00:12:14
Are we going to make a motion on all three together? 00:12:16
Or should we separate them? 00:12:18
For. 00:12:20
The only reason I suggest that is if the timing of the pool extends past that. Maybe it might I mean. 00:12:22
Obviously I don't think any of us have an issue with any of them, but. 00:12:28
It just may be beneficial to y'all to have to go back. 00:12:31
So can we start with the first one really fast? 00:12:33
How about the in ground pool? OK in ground pool. 00:12:36
Motion made A. 00:12:39
Approve the certificate appropriateness for the in ground pool. 00:12:40
I second. 00:12:43
All in favor say aye. 00:12:44
I anyways. 00:12:47
It's unanimous. 00:12:49
All right, we'll move to the second item. 00:12:50
The decking. 00:12:53
I make a motion to approve the decking. 00:12:55
For 207 Reddy St. 00:12:58
2nd. 00:13:01
All in favor say aye aye. 00:13:02
Any days? All right, we're good on that. 00:13:04
And the third thing, the fencing. 00:13:06
All right, the fencing. 00:13:08
I make a motion to approve. 00:13:11
I'll second all in favor say aye. 00:13:13
Aye aye, any naysay? 00:13:16
All right, unanimous on that one. 00:13:18
This job is so fun. I like the one that like the, you know the. 00:13:20
But yes, thank you so much man. And we, we appreciate you very much, Sir. 00:13:24
Thank you. Appreciate you all. 00:13:28
All right, hopefully that was painless. 00:13:29
It was. 00:13:31
Thank you, Sir. Thank you so much. 00:13:34
Congratulations. 00:13:36
All right. And then I think we're moving into. 00:13:39
Let me look here. 00:13:46
So we have discussion items or are we going to discussion items? OK, got it. 00:13:47
So I'm gonna. 00:13:50
Abandoned my iPad. 00:13:52
So we have Grayson. 00:13:54
Matthewson. 00:13:56
So to discuss repairs and renovations on the. 00:13:58
Deck at 105 Osborne St. 00:14:01
And so if you please state your name and your address. 00:14:05
Yeah, Grayson Matthewson. 00:14:07
150 Peters Rd. for Indiana Beach, Florida. 00:14:09
OK, awesome in. 00:14:12
Before we start, we are not, we're not voting on this at all. We're just. 00:14:14
Just a quick update on what's going on with it, right? 00:14:17
Well, I mean, I think. 00:14:20
I think it's. 00:14:22
We should learn what is the proposed scope of work. 00:14:23
And then understand you know if. 00:14:26
Things were to happen which. 00:14:29
Things often do and exterior environments in Southeast Georgia and historic structures. 00:14:30
That, you know, we would. 00:14:36
We would come back and have a conversation, but let's let's hear the scope. 00:14:37
Yeah. So we're looking at the the frontage of the building here. The scope of work is to repair some. 00:14:41
Damage and or deterioration to the second level deck. 00:14:48
On the front of the building. 00:14:52
There is some. 00:14:54
There is some concerns, especially on the. 00:14:56
Outer ends. 00:14:58
Of the deck on both ends that there is some minor wood rot and maybe some structural repairs that are required. 00:14:59
Won't really know though until we pull the facade off. 00:15:06
And look at it. 00:15:09
We do have engineers on board ready to. 00:15:11
Tackle those repairs, but the idea is to put back as. 00:15:13
It is existing, so existing deck boards. 00:15:17
The existing. 00:15:21
Facade that runs down the the second level front. 00:15:22
And on the sides after we make the structural repairs. 00:15:26
And then finish with. 00:15:29
Caulk and and beautification of paint. 00:15:30
There's not going to be any modifications to the hand rails other than. 00:15:33
If you look at the second Bay from the left. 00:15:38
There is a noted bow. 00:15:41
In the bottom rail that we will be replacing. 00:15:43
But the rest of the rails were fine. 00:15:47
OK, there's some other pictures in here, but that's not. 00:15:50
For this OK. 00:15:53
So we'll start with the city. What? What do you all? 00:15:56
Yeah. So I think this is a thank you. 00:15:58
Thank you very much. And I think this is similar to some conversations with the Spencer house and I think look we're. 00:16:01
You know, what we're trying to work out here is informing the Commission. 00:16:09
And then coming back to you and saying that if you, you know, have your contractors assembled and you run into something and 00:16:14
there's a change that has to be made. 00:16:17
You know, we're going to have a conversation about what? 00:16:21
Those changes. 00:16:24
You know what would constitute coming back before the Commission? And I would think from what you've described, this feels like 00:16:26
maintenance of of the structure itself. This is a historic structure. This has the historic designation. 00:16:33
I think a replacement like for. 00:16:41
To ensure that the. 00:16:44
Structure is sound is is a very good thing, and that's why it's come before you as a discussion. 00:16:45
Is that also known as the Riverside? 00:16:51
The Riverview Hotel. 00:16:53
Thank you. 00:16:56
To see we. 00:16:59
So basically I like for like. 00:17:01
Do they still come before us for approval on that? 00:17:03
It's just just a discussion, right? Yeah. Just to let you know, I mean, I felt like the move with the Spencer house was good. 00:17:05
It was a really nice, Yeah, thank you for that. It's such a, it's such a change, a marked change for downtown that just kind of 00:17:11
talking through it was good. 00:17:15
And I have, you know, I, I used to plan for a community in Guilford, CT, which was founded in 1638. And oftentimes when you get 00:17:19
into a 1700s, this is not that old, but that style of home, you know, you're. 00:17:25
Minor demolition becomes major demolition and that tends to upset people. 00:17:31
Also just wanna. 00:17:36
Kind of know what we're getting into here. 00:17:37
Yeah, understood. 00:17:39
Thank you. 00:17:40
Thank you so much for coming. 00:17:41
I did have a question where you have to. 00:17:43
Put up blocking for. 00:17:46
To protect the pedestrians if they're using the sidewalk and all of that area, yes, that's a good question actually when we're 00:17:49
pulling off. 00:17:52
The deck boards and doing any repairs to the deck that could. 00:17:56
Have a potential for dropping there will be. 00:17:59
MOT positioned up the street at the nearest sidewalk to direct pedest. 00:18:02
Across the way and around. 00:18:06
The construction area agree. Great. 00:18:08
I just wanted to. 00:18:10
Double check on that. That's kind of a. 00:18:11
Special area downtown right at that corner. Yes, yes. Thank you so much. You're welcome. 00:18:13
Thank you. 00:18:19
Thank you so much. Thank you. 00:18:20
All right. 00:18:23
In addition, Yep. 00:18:24
And we have an alumni here. 00:18:26
From the from the HPC. 00:18:28
Mr. Tom Franta. 00:18:31
506 St. 00:18:32
Yeah. Hi, Mrs. Rand. 00:18:34
6 St. and. 00:18:35
The queen of the property? Yes, smart man. 00:18:39
Well, anyway, we. 00:18:44
The Commission approved windows for that side of my house which. 00:18:45
Really. Uh. 00:18:50
Wasn't the original part of the house? So yeah. So we were thinking about replacing the other windows. 00:18:51
But then going up there and seeing that WAVY glass and everything. 00:18:58
We came up with an alternative. 00:19:01
Actually, Julie, you might know Frank. 00:19:03
Behind us. 00:19:06
He said he could actually put in sashes where? 00:19:07
We can actually use our windows which have been painted 50 times. 00:19:10
So we're looking at maybe. 00:19:14
Doing that. Nice, yeah. 00:19:15
So we kind of got in contract a little bit with this other situation, so. 00:19:17
We're actually looking to go to. 00:19:22
Preserving the history. 00:19:25
So that's what. 00:19:26
I guess we want to know for. 00:19:29
Perfect. We like that idea. Yeah. I mean, I think it's it's great. It's just a mechanics of how we do it, right. 00:19:31
Yeah, to be a fashion. 00:19:37
Front of the original. 00:19:39
Windows, Yeah, yeah, we want to keep, you know, the original part of the house. We got the Anderson for that little. 00:19:40
Parking sticks out in that modern kitchen, right? 00:19:46
The rest of it, you know, with a little WAVY, we could just open them if Frank comes and does what he says, right? Yeah. 00:19:49
And then you'll let us know. As we discussed at the mailbox, I think we could all use Frank. 00:19:55
Yeah, yeah. 00:20:02
So this is we're denying. So we're doing this is we're denying the. I mean, I think I have a little bit of a workaround, right? 00:20:04
So, so the. 00:20:08
A portion of the work that was approved in June of 2024 has been done. 00:20:13
So some of your. 00:20:18
Some of the windows have been done but this. 00:20:20
Other portion of the house. 00:20:22
That was included in the original certificate of appropriateness. 00:20:24
Has not been done. 00:20:28
So the Commission could choose a few things we could call. 00:20:29
Certain elements of that 2024 COA now. 00:20:34
Defunct because the work hasn't happened and it's been a year. 00:20:38
And then we can just. 00:20:41
You know you can either proceed with that. 00:20:43
Or we can present this as a new item for consideration and you can give them a denial. 00:20:46
For the replacement and an approval of the sash. 00:20:51
Can we do that now or is that not? 00:20:55
Well, the one thing I'm a little bit hesitant of is that we did not. 00:20:58
Post signs and send letters for this particular application. 00:21:02
So I feel a little bit more comfortable and we talked about this, you know, just kind of. 00:21:07
That, umm. 00:21:11
My office would send a letter saying that the certificate of appropriateness that was approved. 00:21:12
In June 25, 2024, is now. 00:21:19
Expired. 00:21:23
And anywhere henceforth. 00:21:24
Cannot be completed. 00:21:26
Tom, how quickly were you trying to get on the? 00:21:27
Minute Are you in a crunch, on time or not at all? OK, so. 00:21:30
I really feel like that's that's exactly the reason why, Mr. Devil. 00:21:34
Thing with the three pieces in it, that's why, OK, if we do those three things separately, then if that should happen with him, 00:21:38
then we go back and we just stick with that one. Sure. Yeah, yeah. 00:21:44
We're not really doing any changing. We're going to. We just want to open our window. So you won't even, there's not going to be 00:21:50
any change. The window will come off. 00:21:54
You know, put in the sashes. 00:21:59
So we can. 00:22:01
And it's, it's nothing noticeable. It's really repair. Yeah, that goes along with maintenance, just like the hotel. 00:22:02
It's yeah, right. 00:22:10
If it's maintenance, I don't think your office needs to worry about the letters and the sign. If it's outside of that scope, I 00:22:12
feel like. 00:22:15
We should probably. 00:22:19
Do but the denial of the. 00:22:21
Vital windows is what? 00:22:24
Or yeah. 00:22:26
OK, Right. Yeah, I think there's a contractual obligation that we're. 00:22:28
Yeah, that we're looking to address. So I think it's best because of what Julia was saying and because of what other commissioners 00:22:32
are saying. What you're doing is sort of maintenance of your structure to be able to operate your very historic windows. I've I've 00:22:38
heard from Miss Westbury that that glass is. 00:22:43
Not made anymore. You can't even get it. 00:22:49
So I think from our perspective, it's a great. 00:22:51
It's a great turn of events. 00:22:53
And so. 00:22:55
I'm I'm happy to write a letter from my office. 00:22:56
That you could utilize. 00:22:59
OK, stating that the certificate of appropriateness is now null and void. 00:23:01
Because it was approved over a year ago. 00:23:06
Well, that's easy outside the box. 00:23:08
It's great. Yeah. And that work was done. So that's right. Yep. 00:23:11
So I think that does that solve your problem. Do you feel comfortable with that? 00:23:16
Situation. Something that says that. 00:23:19
It doesn't work anymore. 00:23:23
That will. 00:23:24
That suggestion you can't do. 00:23:25
Because of the historic nature of the house. 00:23:27
Yep, OK. 00:23:29
Thank you. There's a way. 00:23:31
I have a general question. 00:23:32
Oh, that color. 00:23:34
Do you like the color of the Spencer House? 00:23:36
Would be all of that somewhere very. 00:23:38
Yeah, I like it. 00:23:41
I love that color. 00:23:43
Not not for the color. We don't have a paint code, so we've we've. 00:23:45
We've looked into this. 00:23:49
We look into this just a little bit. 00:23:51
There's certainly some colors that we could recommend to you, but no, there is. 00:23:55
So and Tom, I can see that Tom. 00:24:01
So we have looked into this just a little bit. You know, one of the things that. 00:24:06
We're going to talk about later is that we are revisiting the Historic Preservation Commission and districts design guidelines. 00:24:10
And there needs to be just a little bit of clarity around. 00:24:18
Certain materials and the integrity of materials. 00:24:21
And not painting over those materials. 00:24:25
Nothing on this House would. 00:24:28
Kind of qualify for that. That's specific to the. 00:24:29
Type of stone. 00:24:32
That is on the Rose Level house, that is on the Submarine Museum and that is on the Oak Grove Cemetery wall. 00:24:34
So there's really only one material type that we have in the city that. 00:24:40
You know, there's a little bit of. 00:24:44
A desire not to paint that. 00:24:47
But that's that would be. 00:24:48
The only you know. 00:24:50
Which doesn't apply to your house, but the only time that paint. 00:24:52
Is involved in our discussions. 00:24:54
OK. 00:24:57
We have had groups come in and say like, this is what we're thinking, and then we all say that's going to look amazing and you 00:24:59
know. 00:25:01
We ought to hear. 00:25:04
No. So I think we found resolution there. 00:25:09
It was good seeing you both again. 00:25:11
I see. Thank you. We'll see you next month. 00:25:13
Yes. 00:25:15
Thank you. 00:25:17
Thank you both. 00:25:18
And so the next thing on the list is we have. 00:25:20
My neighbor here. 00:25:24
So we're going to review and approve the HPC annual report. 00:25:26
The annual report that is supposed to be done yearly actually I think has not been done in. 00:25:30
Quite some time by the HPC. 00:25:37
So, umm. 00:25:39
Not since yeah, 2020 I think was the last time it was done. 00:25:40
What I did was sort of mirror the one that was done in 2020. 00:25:44
Miss Stein, you have a copy of it? Elise, I apologize, I don't, I did not give you all a copy, but it's really for the. 00:25:49
Board to look at, OK. 00:25:54
The. 00:25:57
I think you share. 00:25:59
Can you do? I do? Thank you. 00:26:00
Thank you for calling. OK. 00:26:03
And the first thing is we look at the accomplishments this is going to once this report is approved by y'all. And if anything 00:26:05
needs to be added or taken away, it'll be. 00:26:09
Given at the November 17th City Council meeting. I'll, I'll do that report. I think Melvin's out of town. 00:26:15
Accomplishments. 00:26:22
In 2025 and I know we're not finished, but at the point I mean I think all of y'all should probably. 00:26:23
Know all of these, I mean, you either approve them or approve them or we're a big part of it. 00:26:28
Most of them are. We've got some remodels in addition some tree removals. 00:26:34
Vacant lot demolition. 00:26:40
Fencing, outdoor signage, which we're going to talk about. 00:26:42
Think in just a few minutes. 00:26:45
The mural and. 00:26:48
Some planting and some more outdoor sign but most a new roof requests so most of those. 00:26:49
And it says the disposition of the request. The Commission eventually approved most COA requests. 00:26:55
Some with modifications to which the applicants agreed. 00:27:00
HPC continues to make recommendations to the city on signage and aesthetic issues. 00:27:04
We had one COA regarding exterior Merrill that was denied. Applicant has not approached us. 00:27:09
Again, regarding a modified application on that. 00:27:13
So if you folks are OK with that. 00:27:16
Chunk, we're going to go with that. If there's anything, just let me know. 00:27:18
Before we leave tonight so I can get it in there, let's let's address this. 00:27:23
Part at the end of the. 00:27:27
Proposal here which says funds available. Well, no. 00:27:28
Well, we have a lot more. OK. So you're not, you're not right. Sorry. So that's yeah. So if there's nothing with the disposition 00:27:31
of the request. 00:27:36
We'll leave that as is. 00:27:40
And discussions held. 00:27:42
For information purposes, these were no Coas, but these were things that we talked about and those were. 00:27:43
The window paintings that was Amanda Moore working with of several I think. 00:27:49
City properties and doing that. 00:27:53
Additional signages at the multi tenant that was a. 00:27:55
Purple door historic markers, which I think Miss Nap is going to talk with us about tonight. 00:27:58
Lighting in the district. 00:28:05
There's some things in the ordinance that involve lighting, but it's really more positioning of the lighting. 00:28:07
Versus the extent of the lighting and I think Jamie might kind of. 00:28:14
We're going to see if we can have conversations about that and. 00:28:18
Regard in the ordinance as well. 00:28:21
And I think we talked about the retroactive fines as well. 00:28:23
Grant approval for the rewrite of the historic district guidelines that was approved. I think there was a. 00:28:30
$15,000 put in place and then the city. 00:28:36
Match can be satisfied with staff time. 00:28:40
Jamie, correct me if I'm wrong along those lines, OK? 00:28:42
OK, and that grant writing while it hasn't? 00:28:45
Been started and we haven't been involved in it yet. I'm sure that we're going to hear about that soon. 00:28:48
And then the last discussion items for the encroachment permit with cafes and parklets. 00:28:53
So some of the accomplishments. 00:28:59
I mean, since I've been on board, I think the seven member Commission, I appreciate that we have 7. 00:29:02
Members of the community involved in the Historic Preservation District. 00:29:07
Most members have already served a year. 00:29:12
We have two members that live or have lived in the historic district. 00:29:14
All members are enthusiastic and come to meetings prepared to discuss the Coas as relative as they relate to the ordinance. 00:29:20
And our desire to continuously learn as evident by our attendance out. 00:29:27
Relative HPC events statewide and our Main Street events. 00:29:31
So, OK, so some of the goals and this is where I want to talk a little bit. 00:29:35
Continue to educate our citizens so that they understand the restrictions in the district are required by the state for the 00:29:41
district to be a designated historic area. 00:29:46
And I think you know Jamie, I think when I first came on board, you recommended us going to the. 00:29:51
The local festivals and having conversations with people, I know that. 00:29:56
That hasn't come to fruition, and that's some. 00:30:00
That's something we probably need to get a little better at. I'm #2 working with planning and city. 00:30:02
Council to revise the ordinance to eliminate confusing language. Y'all, that was on twenty 20s. 00:30:07
Report, it was also on two previous year's report and I think that that's something that we. 00:30:13
Really need to do. 00:30:19
So we need to get that ordinance revised so that it applies to Saint Mary's and. 00:30:21
And things like that. 00:30:26
And it includes best practices of maintaining the culture and the aesthetics of the district. I'm sure training is available all 00:30:28
members. That's while it's one of our goals, I think it's something we've really gotten good at. 00:30:33
I think when? 00:30:39
Whether it was Jamie's office or Tage or. 00:30:40
Whoever, I think that we've been invited to several trainings and many of us have gone. 00:30:43
Out of town, in town, Zoom and I think that. 00:30:49
That kind of lends itself to. 00:30:51
How good we're working together. 00:30:54
#4 to fairly implement fines to residents that failed to follow COA guidelines. 00:30:57
We. 00:31:05
You know, we have people that aren't following the guidelines and I think Jamie's office works really, really hard trying to. 00:31:07
Keep them in check, but. 00:31:13
Sometimes. 00:31:15
I'm going to use the word exposed. I don't know what else to say. And then other times say. 00:31:17
Slide. 00:31:21
The railing and they're not. 00:31:22
You know, if we let people. 00:31:25
In the district, do things outside of the guidelines and the ordinances and their. 00:31:27
Not being. 00:31:32
Reprimanded or fined or whatever, then are we really doing our job? 00:31:34
And so that's something that we we need one of our goals. 00:31:38
To better inform all businesses about existing ordinance guidelines and that's not just businesses, that's our our homeowners as 00:31:43
well. I think we've kind of we've gotten a lot better with the homeowner section of it, but I think we still have some work to do 00:31:47
on the business section of it. 00:31:52
Encourage planning at City Council to include at least one representative, not the entire Commission. 00:31:57
On all. 00:32:02
Decisions made within the district that might affect the overall ambiance and. 00:32:03
Atmosphere of the district. 00:32:07
Those are the goals that I would recommend. 00:32:09
Funds available, Jamie, OK, I'm finished. First of all, if I know Jimmy's got some conversation about the funds, but are there 00:32:12
any, is there anything that needs to be changed? 00:32:17
I before I do have a question. 00:32:23
Is concerning the fines. 00:32:27
Implementing the fight. 00:32:30
Is there a way? Because I think a lot of people that. 00:32:32
Move into the historic homes as we did. 00:32:35
Several years ago. 00:32:39
There's nothing to say, you know, Make sure this is what from the city or from the HPC. 00:32:40
To say. 00:32:46
These are the rules that apply, so you need to. 00:32:47
Understand about a CEO and what you need to do. 00:32:51
If you want to make any changes. So is there anything that can come out? 00:32:55
From the HBC or from the city? 00:32:59
Just a letter maybe put in the mailbox to everybody within the well I will tell you when I first joined. 00:33:01
The Commission, I asked Fred Mercier, who was on the on the board at the time, if that was something that we could do. And, and I 00:33:09
and I thought that it would have been appropriate there. You know, there's really a few Realtors in this area that work. 00:33:15
Exclusively with our historic our historic homes and I think that it would be a great thing for us to be able to work with them. 00:33:21
That a welcome package. 00:33:25
Be given, maybe even. 00:33:30
Maybe not just. 00:33:33
A welcome package, but maybe a guideline package? 00:33:34
Beforehand. 00:33:37
Fred said that we would run people off, but I really don't believe that to be true. I think that people who own historic homes in 00:33:38
this town. 00:33:41
Are proud of the historic homes and they feel blessed and and are excited I think that we've really. 00:33:44
You know, you could probably speak to us about owning A historic home in the town and how the process even went. 00:33:50
And some areas that you might say we need help with or what don't when you bought your historic home. 00:33:56
I mean, were you told by the Realtors that it was in the? 00:34:01
In the historic district and there were guidelines to come up to the mic. And I know I'm off topic a little and I know we have a 00:34:04
long agenda, but I think that it's probably worth here. 00:34:09
We have like 10,000 people that watch every week. 00:34:13
Yeah, I'm joking around. You use that. I'll say that every single time. Yeah, I say it every time. So were you given a packet by 00:34:15
the? 00:34:18
By your realtor. 00:34:22
Not a packet, OK. 00:34:24
You know, we we lived in a. 00:34:25
Old Victorian prior. 00:34:27
Prior house so. 00:34:30
We we kind of knew about all this stuff, but the real estate agent did. 00:34:31
Inform us and you know we looked online. 00:34:36
You know, just did a good old fashioned. 00:34:41
You know, Googling. 00:34:43
OK, on your own, yes, more OK, real estate agent told us. But. 00:34:44
We didn't get any. 00:34:48
Paperwork or anything OK, this process to answer your second part of this process was? 00:34:50
Painless and pleasant. 00:34:54
Oh, thank you for Melvin did that. 00:34:56
Thank you. But that's probably something that we need to work on, whether it's in the form of a welcome packet or a guideline to 00:35:00
the local Realtors that have a tendency to handle most of our historic homes and things like that. 00:35:06
And that can't be put on the back burner because if it was put on the front burner and taken care of, I think a lot of these 00:35:11
issues would be alleviated. 00:35:15
And that you know, there goes for business owners as well, Jamie, and I think that's probably more under your umbrella than 00:35:18
anything, but. 00:35:21
Anyway, yeah. 00:35:24
Excuse me I was just wondering, do the Realtors have a public annual meeting or monthly meeting or anything like that? 00:35:26
I bet they do. I think there's a realtor. 00:35:36
Tapped into, I mean, I will say, you know. 00:35:42
From the. 00:35:44
A regulations perspective all of our ordinances related to historical preservation are available on our website and online. And 00:35:47
ignorance of the law does not necessarily forgive not. 00:35:53
Participating in that. 00:36:00
However, I totally hear what you're saying. I think it's a great idea. 00:36:02
I think we could work. 00:36:05
Collaboratively to create. 00:36:07
Said welcome packet and if the Realtors were. 00:36:09
On board then I think that would help us in disseminating. 00:36:13
OK, even if. Even if it's a link. Even if it's a link to. 00:36:17
Pieces that your office has. 00:36:22
Put on there and. 00:36:24
I mean, they're they. 00:36:25
They're extensive and they look good, and I think that that would be an easy way to handle it. 00:36:27
Welcome aboard and etc, OK. 00:36:32
Kelly yeah, that's great. Anything else? If there's anything else, let me know before I go before City Council to. 00:36:35
You know, I agree with Jamie though. 00:36:40
People need to be. 00:36:43
Proactive and look into it. 00:36:45
And but, you know, the city also has to kind of help them a little bit to educate them, but. 00:36:46
They do need to. 00:36:51
Know that there's guidelines and. 00:36:53
Be proactive. Yeah, OK, Just know that there are. 00:36:54
And take a look. 00:36:57
OK. So, yeah, I mean a couple of things. I think this is great. Thank you so much. I think this kind of charts the course for the 00:36:59
next year, which is. 00:37:03
Excellent. 00:37:07
One thing I I do, I wasn't at the last meeting and I just want to address. 00:37:09
The retroactive certificate of appropriateness. 00:37:13
So this is something that the Council codified a month or two ago. 00:37:17
I want to stress. 00:37:23
This is not. 00:37:24
A Fine. This is an opportunity. 00:37:25
If someone does work. 00:37:28
On the exterior of their building in the historic district. 00:37:30
I have the authority to do three things. 00:37:34
Stop work. 00:37:37
Tell them to take it down. 00:37:39
And issue a citation for them to appear in Municipal Court. 00:37:40
The judge can then make a ruling as to whether or not they spend time in jail. 00:37:44
Or pay $1000 fine. 00:37:48
What the retroactive certificate of appropriateness allows is. 00:37:51
Oh, sorry, you didn't do this application in advance of doing the work. 00:37:55
But rather than. 00:38:02
Stopping your assembled contractors. 00:38:03
Telling you to return it to. 00:38:05
Its original state and issuing A citation to you. 00:38:08
We are giving you the opportunity to retroactively apply. 00:38:11
I want to be very clear about that. 00:38:16
Because there was, I think at the last meeting, there was a little bit of confusion there. 00:38:19
Subsequently that retroactive. 00:38:23
Fee has been paid for. 00:38:25
So there are now $1000. 00:38:27
In your. 00:38:29
Kitty that can go to certain things and the office is about to. 00:38:30
You'll next month you will receive another retroactive certificate of appropriateness. 00:38:35
For a roof that was replaced on stable alley. 00:38:41
So I think it's working. 00:38:44
I think this is a very positive tool. 00:38:46
I think it's forgiving. 00:38:49
You know where it kind of, but it also does not. 00:38:51
Does not. It gives a discretion of. 00:38:55
If work is done that we really feel has. 00:39:00
You know, had an incredible impact. 00:39:04
On the character of the historic district. 00:39:07
Then we can be more punitive, such as a citation or. 00:39:09
Returning the structure to its normal. 00:39:13
State or stopping work. 00:39:15
But I think when it's. 00:39:17
Things that maybe you just didn't know. Maybe you just didn't know that replacing a roof would require a certificate of 00:39:19
appropriateness. And you. 00:39:23
That's exactly what happened on Stable Alley. You assemble A-Team, you have a contractor there, you got everything ready to go. 00:39:27
And rather than saying Nope, stop everybody, go home. 00:39:33
It was a OK. 00:39:36
Let's let's do this. 00:39:38
So I think, I think it's a great tool. 00:39:39
I know that there's been some confusion about it. 00:39:43
But but I think that that will be helpful for us. 00:39:46
Particularly with our historic marker. 00:39:49
Jimmy said the money that's in the bank right now is that's for Stable Alley. 00:39:52
No, that was for the pizzeria. 00:39:56
OK, have we gone anywhere with 401 W? 00:39:59
We have not. 00:40:02
Well, that's a we are ready and willing to issue a So the way that that shouldn't come from us, that should come from your office. 00:40:03
Yeah, it comes from. 00:40:06
So what it will be is it will be a notice of violation to the property owner. 00:40:10
And the corrective action on the notice of violation will be a retroactive certificate of appropriate. 00:40:14
OK. And it's not? 00:40:19
That we created a fee and now you have to pay us that fee retroactively. 00:40:20
No, this is an opportunity to avoid a summons to appear in Municipal Court. 00:40:24
And what about your pizzeria? 00:40:28
What about the roof on the pizzeria? 00:40:31
That has. 00:40:33
Has paid. 00:40:34
That was paid. That was paid. 00:40:35
OK, Yep. 00:40:38
Well, it gives people the opportunity to make things right when they didn't know they were doing wrong. And you know, it's the. 00:40:39
You know it's. 00:40:46
Educating people, that's a big part of the job. 00:40:47
Is to educate people and give them the opportunity to make it right. 00:40:50
Yeah. So I guess my question would be too is like I agree with you in your statement of like. 00:40:55
I guess it has to be fair across the board, so if like it was like an honest mistake. 00:40:59
They'll still pay the $1000, obviously. 00:41:03
Is there is there a situation to where they wouldn't have to pay? 00:41:08
The $1000? Not in my eyes, no. 00:41:11
OK, I mean again, I'm, I'm, I think. 00:41:13
I think something that the Commission needs to be very mindful of is that there are a series of recent acquisitions in the 00:41:16
historic district and those acquisitions will come with redevelopment. 00:41:21
Proposals. 00:41:27
And those redevelopment proposals? 00:41:28
Need to be within our existing guidelines. 00:41:30
And if I I know people will want. 00:41:33
To, you know, stick to the letter of the guideline in those instances. And I think we have to start. 00:41:36
Now, before that even comes to show that we're a fully assembled Commission. 00:41:42
You know, we're working on updating our ordinances and our guidelines. 00:41:47
And we're sort of, you know. 00:41:51
Offering this opportunity and ensuring that all buildings in the historic district adhere to. 00:41:53
OK, so no changes. 00:41:58
Anybody. 00:42:01
Nope, I think it was amazing. Thank you for joining. 00:42:02
So as written, that will be presented to City Council. 00:42:05
We'll we'll let you know the funds available. 00:42:08
$8 million. 00:42:11
Hey, you can do a lot with $8 million. 00:42:14
I hope we don't ever get a lot of money in that account. I'm just being honest. 00:42:19
We keep it very low. Yeah, yeah. 00:42:23
Because I don't like. 00:42:26
People having to spend money. 00:42:27
Right. 00:42:29
My other neighbor here. 00:42:31
So discussion regarding historic markers. 00:42:33
OK, so. 00:42:35
I have that presentation they're trying to make it really and I just want to like it would not be awkward if you 2 walked away 00:42:37
right now. 00:42:40
You're more than willing to say I mean. 00:42:43
You can definitely stay but. 00:42:45
Oh, OK, cool. OK. I just wanted. 00:42:47
It wouldn't be awkward. 00:42:49
That's what works. 00:42:52
Yeah, OK. So. 00:42:54
I've got this PowerPoint to. 00:42:57
This is a proposal. 00:43:01
For creating the. 00:43:02
Historic, uh. 00:43:08
Marker program or? 00:43:09
Recreating umm. 00:43:11
So we've had this discussion for how many meetings? 00:43:12
And so, several months ago I started doing some research. 00:43:15
On other cities, towns, communities within Georgia. 00:43:20
And and Charleston outside. 00:43:24
That have the historic. 00:43:27
Marker programs and what they do, so pretty much everything that we have discussed. 00:43:29
Is in here. 00:43:35
So including the QR code that I think Celinda. 00:43:37
First brought up months and months ago. 00:43:41
So really quick I just put everything down. 00:43:43
I also have with these towns and communities something that I had. 00:43:46
Printed out several months ago really quick and it's got the individual cities. This is just a few. 00:43:50
Of many, so if anybody wants to. 00:43:56
To look at this. 00:43:59
But if we. 00:44:00
Let me get my glasses on and look at this so I can make this as quick. 00:44:01
As and by the way, everything I'm saying is what we've discussed. 00:44:05
So again, just putting it into. 00:44:08
A proposal. 00:44:10
So on. 00:44:13
If we can change to slide 2. 00:44:16
Issues with existing historic property markers. 00:44:19
Historic markers currently in use in Saint Mary's. 00:44:23
Are of poor quality. 00:44:26
As we have seen walking and driving by. 00:44:29
Markers placed by owners. 00:44:32
Of newer homes. 00:44:35
Will end up adding. 00:44:37
New markers that are historic markers. 00:44:40
Of homes built as we will see in a minute, 20/17/2020. 00:44:43
The names displayed on existing markers sometimes fail to reflect and I think all of you all have a copy of this. I don't know if 00:44:48
you want to be. 00:44:52
Read with me. 00:44:56
Sometimes failed to reflect the property's history. 00:44:57
In #4 there. 00:45:00
Is no mean means of linking. 00:45:02
To additional information, meaning the QR code. 00:45:05
So if we can go to. 00:45:08
3 and here we have 3 examples. Two of the markers that are worn you cannot read. 00:45:11
And in the new house? 00:45:18
Which has the. 00:45:20
I think that's the new current. 00:45:21
Historic marker with the tree. 00:45:24
I don't I I'm not sure. I mean, I went through, I think we've all. 00:45:28
Done some Dr. bys and walk bys and it's all kind of. 00:45:32
Kind of different so. 00:45:37
If we can go to slide. 00:45:39
4 so. 00:45:41
We also all know that the. 00:45:43
The definitions of what makes. 00:45:47
A home historic comes from the Department of Natural Resources and the Department of Community Affairs. 00:45:49
Natural Resources said. 00:45:57
They give. 00:45:59
Three reasons or three? 00:46:00
Criteria. 00:46:03
Of what makes it historic. 00:46:05
It's a home is exemplary of a past era or architectural style to associated with historic events. 00:46:07
Or Persons 3A. 00:46:14
Site contributing to the historical or cultural heritage of the community. 00:46:16
The Georgia Department of Community Affairs. 00:46:22
Says age. 00:46:25
That it's of interest to historians or archaeologists. Integrity. 00:46:27
Retains original physical features and three significance. 00:46:32
And that is through association with people or events shaping history. 00:46:36
And it embodies physical features of historic significance. 00:46:40
So if we can go. 00:46:44
2/5 and this has to do with the. 00:46:46
And changes. 00:46:54
And there are. 00:46:56
4 criteria, the first one. 00:46:57
Is. 00:47:02
It is. 00:47:03
Proposed that the HPC. 00:47:04
Update. 00:47:07
The criteria for official historic markers. 00:47:08
And I'm going to say this and then I'm going to go back to it. 00:47:12
To include a minimum age of 100. 00:47:15
Years, so we'll go back to that. 00:47:18
In extraordinary cases, the HPC may at its discretion. 00:47:21
Allow exceptions to this. 00:47:26
In addition to that age requirement, one of two additional criteria would have to be met. 00:47:28
One is the property is directly associated with individuals, events, activities. 00:47:33
Or developments that shape. 00:47:39
Our history or that reflect important aspects. 00:47:41
Of our history #2. 00:47:44
The property has the potential to yield information. 00:47:46
Important to our understanding of the past through archaeological. 00:47:50
Architectural. 00:47:53
Or other physical investigation and analysis. 00:47:55
So going back to the age because I know that we've. 00:47:58
Talked about this. 00:48:01
The 1975. 00:48:02
And the 1986 they used the criteria. 00:48:04
In regards to age as 50. 00:48:08
Over 50 years old and beyond. Now if we go to the 1975 survey. 00:48:10
That took us in 1925. 00:48:15
100 years from today. 00:48:18
If we go to the 1986 that's 90, so that's 1936. So I think if we. 00:48:20
Say 100 years. 00:48:25
We have the exceptions that the HBT. 00:48:27
HP, HPC. 00:48:31
Can say OK this is something that. 00:48:33
That we will allow. 00:48:36
But you also have. 00:48:39
To have either one. 00:48:40
Or two. 00:48:43
Other criteria to work with that. 00:48:45
Yeah, I think the age. 00:48:49
And at one or two of those, right, I think that's the thing that makes it a full circle, yeah. 00:48:50
I'm not the smartest guy up here. I'm like probably the least smartest guy up here. So have a quick question. 00:48:56
So the Griffin. 00:49:00
2017. 00:49:01
So we. 00:49:03
Are we saying that would not be allowed or are we they can keep it because we're going to get to. 00:49:04
The next one we're going to have to. 00:49:09
To do yeah, because we can't, we can't tell people like they can put 2030. 00:49:11
Yeah, that's what they wanted to, right? Yeah, we were talking, saying, well, we can't make them take it down. 00:49:15
But OK, so then. 00:49:21
2 which is links to informative historical information. 00:49:25
That's the QR code. Each historic marker will include a QR code that links to a section of the city's website. 00:49:29
Featuring details on the. 00:49:36
Particular property and its historic significance. 00:49:38
Information on Saint Mary's history and a map. 00:49:41
For a self-guided tour with the locations of more properties. By the way, all of these programs have all of this the QR code, the 00:49:44
self-guided tour on the website. 00:49:49
3 Distinctive design, durable material. 00:49:54
So this. 00:49:57
Is a new professionally designed marker. 00:49:58
Should be immediately recognizable as part of the official program. This means that its appearance must be distinct from that of 00:50:02
the current historical historic markers. 00:50:07
Also, the new markers must be fabricated in a durable material. 00:50:13
That will remain colorfast and structurally sound overtime. 00:50:18
The last one is the promotion of the self-guided tour. 00:50:23
Of historic properties which links up back up to the QR code. 00:50:26
Consistent with its stated charge to quote enhance the town's historic attractions to tourists. 00:50:30
HPC should work closely with the Convention and Visitors Bureau. 00:50:38
Main Street office, the county Chamber of Commerce. 00:50:41
And other organizations to encourage them to promote a self. 00:50:45
Tour of historic properties. 00:50:49
So going to slide. 00:50:52
Six. Well, this is. 00:50:55
2nd to the last. 00:50:57
Application and approval process for markers. So all of this here I kind of gleaned from all the other historic. 00:51:00
Programs and just. 00:51:07
Put it here, kind of combined it and. 00:51:09
So a property owner must complete an application form and submit it to the HPC. 00:51:12
And it will include the following. 00:51:17
One is 1 or more clear photos of the property showing any relevant features noted in the application. 00:51:19
Two documented proof that the property meets the. 00:51:26
Historic marker. 00:51:29
Criteria. 00:51:30
3 proposed historic marker texts, for example, the name of the property. 00:51:32
And you're built and a draft of a property district. 00:51:37
Description to be a. 00:51:41
Accessible via a QR code. 00:51:42
The description should be a maximum. 00:51:45
Again, uh. 00:51:48
Kind of take him from some of these other programs. 00:51:49
Historic market programs. 00:51:53
Should be a maximum of. 00:51:54
400 words. 00:51:56
Which is about one tight. 00:51:57
Double space page. 00:51:59
And maybe the same Mary's planning department staff can provide assistance in what to include in the description. 00:52:01
So I think. 00:52:07
They will need help. 00:52:09
Yeah. You know, Kelly, I love this part of it because it's almost a chance for our homeowners to shine. 00:52:10
To let them shine by doing some of those things, some of the research and that. 00:52:16
Yeah, I like that. The other thing that I did have a question. 00:52:21
Quickly about with, you know, our street signs in the District, kind of. 00:52:24
Parallel with our markers. 00:52:28
And that's, I didn't know if that in your research if you found that that was another component that we could. 00:52:30
Add to it at those big crawl streets because they're in just about disrepair as well. So I didn't know if that was something that 00:52:36
we could add if you had seen that in the research or not. 00:52:40
Yeah, absolutely think so. 00:52:45
So 7, so the last. 00:52:48
Slide the most important one. 00:52:50
Trying to go as fast as I can because we have so much on here. 00:52:53
So the cost and installation of markers. 00:52:56
So that would have to be a one time design fee. 00:53:00
That the city would have to take on. 00:53:03
H guess the city. 00:53:05
The city will subsidized a portion of the historic marker. 00:53:07
And oversee production by the sign maker. 00:53:11
The applicants portion to be determined, I'm thinking from our discussions about the grant that we have and how we can use the 00:53:14
money we have. 00:53:18
So would determine what? 00:53:24
The applicant would. 00:53:25
Pay in what the city pays. 00:53:26
Must be paid prior to manufacture. 00:53:28
Of marker installation will be the responsibility of the homeowner. 00:53:32
And guidelines for placement location a method will be provided, which I think is what we discussed in. 00:53:36
The last time. 00:53:42
Potential installation by. 00:53:44
I don't even know if the city could even do that or not. We would give them the guidelines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is where you 00:53:47
yeah, where we where you put it. 00:53:50
And I think that Renee Villa with. 00:53:54
Villa with Dalton sign actually said I'd see up there where you say one time design fee. 00:53:57
I think she said once the. 00:54:02
Piece of generally designed. 00:54:03
And you know, obviously your home would look different than your home and. 00:54:05
Some of those that she said that it's really on a whole sheet. 00:54:09
Of material and that. 00:54:13
The design, once it's done, is not that big of a deal because when we talked originally, we were thinking it should just say 00:54:15
historic district or historic property. And then she said no, we can actually. 00:54:19
Detail it to the specific home and as long as it's on one sheet, the. 00:54:25
Cost to sort of minimize, yeah. 00:54:29
Or at least for the work. 00:54:32
Involved, right? And I want to add something to that too. Is like I I believe so how many? 00:54:34
Homes that we have and nobody is. 00:54:38
In 86, I mean, we're going way back. I read 65 or something. 00:54:41
That was 65, but I don't know, was that 20? I don't know if I was reading 22 or and then which ones meet the 80s six. 00:54:46
So we right because the reason is I say that. 00:54:53
My opinion of it is like two things. One, we should pay as much as possible. 00:54:56
And then two, we should go on the offensive and actually knock on these doors and say hey, like. 00:55:00
We have this program so that everybody. 00:55:05
You know, we can get everybody on board. 00:55:07
To actually so like one of the offensive and actually like. 00:55:09
Get in contact with these folks. 00:55:12
So. So I've got a question about that, I don't know what. 00:55:14
If this can come. 00:55:16
The city who it could come from, but. 00:55:18
Can we find those? 00:55:21
Historic Homes. 00:55:22
And mailed in the information. 00:55:24
Say, hey, this is. We are. We are. 00:55:27
You know. 00:55:29
Yeah, so we've got. 00:55:31
We've got like the, the the. 00:55:32
Historic home profile that we created for Mr. Dublock. 00:55:35
Came from. 00:55:39
Basically 2 resources that the city and the historic preservation has commissioned. 00:55:41
In the past, and that's a. 00:55:46
Historic resources inventory. 00:55:47
And so one was done in 1984 and all of those files. 00:55:50
Reside in our office. A lot of it went into the creation of this. 00:55:55
Of this web page which is a little bit. 00:56:01
Blah when you first arrive at it, but if you do the drop down you can get. 00:56:03
More information on each. 00:56:08
This is not as extensive as what? 00:56:10
We did on the housing. 00:56:12
The home profile because we combined. 00:56:14
Information from the two surveys. 00:56:16
But yeah, we we could totally do that. We have that information. I don't know the number of. 00:56:19
Uh, homes specifically or buildings off the top of my head, but. 00:56:25
Why not? I'm joking. I know, right? Somebody owned two homes up here, by the way. 00:56:29
Two of those homes on that list somebody owned. 00:56:34
So anyway, Dad said. I just wanted to. 00:56:39
Put all of this together, amazing talking about. So where do we go? 00:56:41
So where do we go from here? Because it's a proposal, an amazing proposal, so I think. 00:56:45
Yeah, I think a couple of things would be. 00:56:50
You know, I think it might be a good idea. 00:56:55
Active. Kind of. 00:56:58
You know, pair this down just a little bit and put it in front of other. 00:57:02
Owners of these properties in the just asking for some guidance or feedback or their thoughts on it. 00:57:08
I will. The next discussion item is about the HPC design guidelines which we have. 00:57:15
Of $15,000 grant for which we will match $15,000 in city time. 00:57:22
So those funds? 00:57:28
Can't go to this. 00:57:29
However. 00:57:31
The retroactive certificate of appropriateness funds. 00:57:32
Can go to this. 00:57:35
So yeah, you know, I think like kind of. 00:57:37
Working through. 00:57:39
What is the design that you want to see, you know, and then maybe. 00:57:40
Putting this out to a couple of, you know, key homeowners in the district or for some reason. 00:57:45
When you started talking about key homeowners and stuff like that, I wonder if. 00:57:51
If we. 00:57:55
Started with. 00:57:56
Our historic Rd. signs. 00:57:57
And then went to our churches and Orange Hall and started to see those new ones. Would it kind of spark the interest of our 00:57:59
homeowners? 00:58:03
Just say wait a minute. 00:58:08
How do I get one of those signs for my property? If baby steps and I'll leave that bridge. 00:58:09
Yeah, well, I think it's really important somehow to get it to each of them because if we want this to become a self-guided tour 00:58:15
for all the visitors and the tourists, which we have so many every day. 00:58:20
Well, maybe not right now. 00:58:25
But but but we want I would think like you said. 00:58:27
People want to. 00:58:32
Be a part of this they. 00:58:33
To have their. 00:58:35
Shine so and the QR code can. 00:58:37
That would update the houses. 00:58:39
Come on board, right? 00:58:42
Right, but the QR code would go to a website and that yeah, that's how we should. 00:58:43
Yeah, right. What we're thinking. And that's what all these other programs do. So it's, yeah, like they can go when someone can 00:58:48
research. 00:58:51
Saint Mary's and go to the self-guided tour. 00:58:55
And then? 00:58:58
All of that is under that, so they can start at any house and then. 00:58:58
Or or probably maybe OK, if you start here, you get the beginning, the 1803. 00:59:02
Are involved Clark house and then. 00:59:08
I think another good thing to do is. 00:59:10
You know, I don't know if you guys know about this website. 00:59:13
Or this? 00:59:18
Map but. 00:59:18
You know, getting getting back to your point earlier. 00:59:21
Kelly about the age so in our ordinance. 00:59:23
It's one of the criteria is 50 years. 00:59:27
But as you were saying, when you do new surveys and time passes. 00:59:30
More and more. 00:59:34
Things come under the 50 year framework, so I think. 00:59:35
You know, maybe a good next step at the next meeting we could. 00:59:39
I'm sorry, I don't know why this is taking so long to load. 00:59:43
Is to put forward. 00:59:46
A kind of a digest of our. 00:59:48
Guide of our ordinances for the district because there are implications you you can as a Commission. 00:59:53
Designate a structure historic. 01:00:00
You can designate a structure intrusive. 01:00:03
You can designate a structure non contributing. 01:00:06
And and. 01:00:09
Actions and certificate appropriateness. 01:00:10
Materials. 01:00:13
Vary based on those. 01:00:14
Based on those structural. 01:00:17
Distinctions. 01:00:20
So you know if you. 01:00:21
If you get down. 01:00:23
To the the downtown here. 01:00:25
And if you want to tinker with. 01:00:29
Some of these layers you'll see a couple of cool things. 01:00:31
The 1st and this is this is off our website. 01:00:36
For anybody who is interested. 01:00:38
You know, if you take off this zoning layer. 01:00:41
And you put on. 01:00:43
The district layer. 01:00:44
And you see, the orange represents the boundary of the district. 01:00:46
If you take off the district and you put on this historic district. 01:00:50
Parcel class. 01:00:54
This is very interesting and I think needs a little update. 01:00:56
So you'll see that the properties themselves or the. 01:01:00
You know, in the GIS world, we're. 01:01:04
We refer to them as the polygons of the properties. 01:01:06
They're color-coded. 01:01:10
So I think. 01:01:12
I'm not sure. 01:01:15
I think this was last done. 01:01:16
In probably. 01:01:18
2010. 01:01:21
We have to go back and sort of this is one thing that's kind of on our list of things to do, but. 01:01:22
You know, umm. 01:01:27
Gray is unknown, blue is historic. 01:01:28
Orange is historic obscured. 01:01:31
Yellow is an intrusion, pink is non historic, and then green is vague. 01:01:33
So. So what you're saying is if we don't? 01:01:38
Update uh. 01:01:41
The significant age and then those intrusions becomes historical. 01:01:42
I'm not sure and I think I think we have to investigate this a little bit more, but you know, I'll point to my own home on Wheat 01:01:47
St. which is labeled as non historic. 01:01:52
It was built in 1954. 01:01:57
I think it's quite a charming little example of that kind of. 01:02:00
You know, cement block design and it's pretty much. 01:02:04
The way it looked when it was built, I mean, with the exception of the garage and the front porch, but you know, I think like. 01:02:07
It's interesting to me that we may, as a Commission, want to revisit this list. 01:02:13
At a certain point in time so. 01:02:19
Yeah, just just just some thoughts. 01:02:21
You know, I really like the idea of looking at the street signs. 01:02:24
Right now. 01:02:30
The street signs in the historic district that they're. 01:02:31
Representative. 01:02:34
Streets throughout Saint Mary's. 01:02:36
With the white lettering. 01:02:38
And I'm wondering if. 01:02:40
For the historic. 01:02:43
Preservation District if those signs could be changed. 01:02:44
Like I've seen in other communities where. 01:02:47
The designation of those streets is white with a black. 01:02:50
Street. 01:02:54
Name on it so that people know that. 01:02:55
That this is something different. 01:02:58
And that would help delineate. 01:03:00
The area and then when that. 01:03:03
Those are up. Then we can start with the homes. 01:03:06
Rather than trying to do everything at once. 01:03:09
Colleen, I think the ones that I saw like an Aiken, it actually has the street name and then underneath it in much smaller letter 01:03:12
says. 01:03:16
Historic District. 01:03:19
I like that and so that's kind of a neat idea to. 01:03:21
Kind of. That would be nice to. 01:03:25
Incorporate that. 01:03:29
I don't know who pays for the. 01:03:31
Science. Just the city. 01:03:33
We do do that. 01:03:35
And I mean, I like the idea and we can continue to bat it around. I mean, some of them get a little wonky, like. 01:03:36
I'm on the South side of Weed tree and I'm in the district but the person across the street from me is not. 01:03:43
So it gets a little herky jerky. 01:03:48
You know all of Bryant St. is in the District. 01:03:50
You know quite a bit of Saint Mary. 01:03:53
Most, you know, there's just some. 01:03:56
All of Stable Alley, some quirks, Yeah, there's some quirky things there. But I think, yeah, all of these ideas are great. At 01:03:58
first I thought you were referring to the the, the. 01:04:03
The wooden. 01:04:07
They mimic the historic marker signs and they're in. 01:04:09
In the islands, they're in the island of. 01:04:12
Of Osborne those two, I think. 01:04:15
It would be a good idea to rehab those because they're so visible. They're they're high traffic. I just thought if we started with 01:04:18
that and maybe the. 01:04:21
Churches and some of the big stories that would be a good place to. 01:04:25
Start and then I mean, those homeowners are going to go, wait a minute, that's a historic. 01:04:29
Area. How can I get that and then? 01:04:33
Would kind of just naturally start. Do you guys have the money? We'll get people talking, so I'm joking. 01:04:36
Absolutely. Yeah. And also when the Realtors go. 01:04:41
Show a home that. 01:04:44
They'll know, Hey, they'll see the difference in the street sign and. 01:04:46
That that means something. 01:04:51
Excellent. 01:04:53
I don't know how much it would cost to do that or. 01:04:54
The time it would take to do that, if you have, I think we'll just have to kind of get started. 01:04:58
I mean from, you know, me touching base on this now. 01:05:02
Versus our very first conversation on this, this has evolved a lot. 01:05:05
And I think it's. 01:05:09
It's taking shape which is so nice so. 01:05:11
I have a question about. 01:05:14
The Walking tour, could we do like a little pamphlet or something also to put in the visitor center? 01:05:16
Yeah, I think, you know part of this. I think that. 01:05:23
Again, looking at the other towns of. 01:05:26
And communities with the program is they do you have to get the Commission and visitors Bureau involved. You've got to get that. I 01:05:29
mean you've got to get the Camden County of chamber and. 01:05:33
That is part of it is. Yeah, Ken, we have a pamphlet. 01:05:38
That when they arrive. 01:05:42
Take that or they can just go on to the website and they're. 01:05:44
You know, doing that with the phone, so. 01:05:47
I think so. 01:05:51
I mean just. 01:05:52
Yeah, seeing how others do it, yeah. Yeah, I think, I think there has to be. 01:05:53
Departments working. 01:05:57
Together. 01:05:58
And there's a lot of older people that don't use Q. 01:05:59
Your quotes I don't want to go online. 01:06:03
So we could have like little synopsis, yeah, or something, yeah. 01:06:05
Yeah, I mean just. 01:06:11
Just for everybody to know that the. 01:06:12
Tourism director is putting the finishing touches on the tour of historic homes, which I believe happens in November. 01:06:15
So it's now now as a prime time to. 01:06:21
You know, kind of engage that board and those. 01:06:25
Conversations. 01:06:27
And who does that again? I'm sorry, Jamie. Miss Angela Wigger. 01:06:29
She's our director of tourism. 01:06:33
OK. Thank you. 01:06:35
It should be on her website I think the the. 01:06:37
Her offshoot website is Visit St. Marys. 01:06:39
Probably is probably on there. 01:06:44
So you guys? 01:06:47
Yeah, want to move forward to the next discussion item or? 01:06:48
OK. So thank you, Kelly. We really appreciate you. 01:06:51
So he's right. District guidelines. Have a great day, Sir. 01:06:56
Thank you. Take care. 01:06:59
Yeah, let's let's talk about that so. 01:07:01
All right. Umm. 01:07:03
At least made copies for you of. 01:07:06
What's called a request for proposals. So. 01:07:10
I'm pretty sure you were. 01:07:15
You were engaged in the process of going after this grant. 01:07:17
To rewrite. 01:07:22
Our historic preservation. 01:07:24
District. 01:07:27
Design guidelines which are date back to. 01:07:28
1986 I think, can't quite remember. 01:07:32
So we got the grant, which is great. 01:07:36
And yes, I forget when these were done. 01:07:39
And so this RFP request for proposals is something that we would put out. 01:07:44
Or release. 01:07:51
Publish to interested contractors who have done and you'll see there's a there's a scope of work. 01:07:53
There's criteria for the submission and the proposal. There's a schedule. 01:08:00
You know, there's, there's firm qualifications and references and a proposed fee schedule and pricing. 01:08:05
So I would like for you to. 01:08:12
Avaloxi. 01:08:16
And give us any feedback that you may have. 01:08:18
And if you could do that within a week, that would be great. 01:08:22
As a. 01:08:26
Sort of form of guidance tomorrow morning we'll also share with you. 01:08:28
The request for proposals that the City of Douglas put out for rewriting their historic district design guidelines. 01:08:33
As well as some language from the Georgia Department of Natural Resources. 01:08:39
On creating design guidelines for historic district and I think with these before you, you can make. 01:08:45
Suggestions to the request for proposal? 01:08:52
So really. 01:08:54
The way that that will work is that the city will solicit. 01:08:56
Firms to bid on this as a contract. 01:09:00
Right. And then. 01:09:04
You know, you know. 01:09:06
We can. 01:09:06
Engage. 01:09:08
Property owners within the district to join. I know Miss K Westbury is very interested. 01:09:10
In engaging, I've also put out some feelers to Mr. Walter and his associates to see if they would be interested in engaging. 01:09:16
You know, we have a couple of firms that I think would do a great job. 01:09:24
I'm not real sure that the grants going to cover it, but we're going to. 01:09:28
We're going to try to. 01:09:32
See if we can get some interest in some. 01:09:34
Momentum so. 01:09:36
I think it's a really exciting time. 01:09:38
Some of the things, and you'll see some of that language in here and again. 01:09:40
This is like. 01:09:44
Fresh draft. I mean, I just looked at this for the first time today. 01:09:45
So but. 01:09:48
You know, we would still have somewhere to go, so don't feel. 01:09:49
Like you're hurting everybody's feelings to make suggestions. 01:09:52
And I think that the way that I see. 01:09:56
The work that comes before this. 01:09:59
Commission evolving is really. 01:10:01
The need for. 01:10:04
Whether we break things down by. 01:10:07
Certain types of buildings or certain facets of buildings you know you could do. 01:10:10
Certain architectural types. 01:10:16
You could do certain elements of buildings, whether it be. 01:10:18
Porches or. 01:10:21
Materials or windows? 01:10:23
Or rouges. You could look at landscaping and landscape elements. I mean, there's so many. 01:10:25
Possibilities, but I think. 01:10:30
What I want you to. 01:10:31
Keep in mind is that. 01:10:33
These guidelines should be a very. 01:10:34
Easy to use. 01:10:37
Tool for you all. 01:10:38
So when? 01:10:40
Renovation. Significant redevelopments. 01:10:41
Demolition, blighted properties, you know, that's something that. 01:10:43
These guidelines don't get to at all. 01:10:47
Right. But that that's going to happen soon. 01:10:49
And I think that we. 01:10:53
We should. 01:10:54
Feel like these guidelines are not. 01:10:55
Just. 01:10:58
Setting the expectation for property owners. 01:10:58
And new development, but also a tool that helps. 01:11:02
You all to be. 01:11:05
A little bit more facile in in design conversation. 01:11:07
So that's kind of the goal, Yeah, real quick conversation because I know we've been here a long time. 01:11:10
What is the difference between? 01:11:15
These guidelines. 01:11:18
And our ordinance, yeah, because it's a little bit confusing. I think when all of us started on the Historic Preservation 01:11:20
Commission, we were given the big notebook, or at least the big. 01:11:25
Paper and I think those are the those were our guidelines. 01:11:31
Well, there's there's two, so the Galen and associates on like. 01:11:34
Literally roller. 01:11:38
Print from 1986. 01:11:40
Those are your design guidelines. 01:11:42
OK, the the official ordinances that so if you go to the city's website, you navigate to community development. 01:11:44
You go to city ordinances. 01:11:52
And you find yourself in, I think it's, I think it's 62. 01:11:54
Chapter 62. Historical Preservation. 01:11:59
So this is the area where you. 01:12:02
All that language about. 01:12:07
How you amend the district? 01:12:09
How you recommend certain structures? 01:12:12
Get the. 01:12:14
Historic Classification. 01:12:15
You know, you're, you're basically how you operate as a Commission, what authority you have, what authority I have. 01:12:18
What a certificate of appropriateness is all about. Why you have to get one? 01:12:24
All of that guidance and language. 01:12:28
Including a very large section. 01:12:31
On signage. 01:12:34
Which is in here. 01:12:37
Those those are the things that. 01:12:39
Hold up in court. 01:12:41
These are the things that give. 01:12:42
Me, the authority as the development director to stop work. 01:12:44
To issue a citation. 01:12:48
The guidelines don't do that. 01:12:49
Guidelines are meant. 01:12:51
To help to steer you. 01:12:52
When new development or changes. 01:12:54
Alterations. Demolitions. 01:12:57
Come to the fore. 01:13:00
I think you just said the keyword those. 01:13:02
But those guidelines don't hold up in court. Those are guidelines. And so the problem comes in with so much new development coming 01:13:04
in and things like that. I mean, it's up to us and then. 01:13:09
We You know what happens if we. 01:13:14
Decline a COA and then they go to City Council and City Council approved. They can do that and that can happen. 01:13:17
Because of those guidelines, now if we ever wanted anything changed. 01:13:23
In chapter 62. 01:13:27
What do we do? 01:13:29
Well, so it would. So we've done it a lot recently with the Planning Commission and it's the same process. 01:13:30
So since you have jurisdiction and authority within this ordinance of Chapter 62. 01:13:36
We would work with you to identify any revisions that you want to make. 01:13:43
We would probably, in a few work sessions, come up with a redlined ordinance. 01:13:47
And then you would vote on. 01:13:52
Giving favorable recommendation of that amended ordinance to City Council. 01:13:54
And then we'd move it to City Council. 01:13:58
You know, probably I would do a work session with them as well. 01:14:00
And then they would. 01:14:03
They would vote to either adopt or adopt with amendments or. 01:14:04
Thank you. 01:14:08
Yeah, and I think, you know, there's a lot of stuff in here, you know, particularly around. 01:14:09
Signage. 01:14:14
You know, I know that we want to talk about. 01:14:15
Lighting, but you know I. 01:14:18
I caution you on that because I. 01:14:20
Several two years ago now, I I tried to hold these regulations. 01:14:22
To the fire and they burn up. 01:14:26
Cold. So I think you know you just. 01:14:29
We just have to be realistic about. 01:14:32
You know, we shouldn't have a set of regulations that we're not enforcing. Now we're using the term regulation. Are we talking 01:14:34
about Chapter 62? So you tried to hold up the neon sign? 01:14:40
And it. 01:14:46
Failed. Or were we just asked to? 01:14:48
Leave it alone. 01:14:50
Did it fail or were you asked to just leave it alone? Because I was asked to leave it alone. You know, the city took a bath over 01:14:51
social media trying to regulate it, but it's clearly in there, so, you know. 01:14:56
From from my perspective. 01:15:02
From my staff's perspective. 01:15:04
The last thing you want. 01:15:06
Is your enforcement team second guessing what they're supposed to be enforcing? 01:15:07
So if it's in there, it's enforceable. 01:15:12
If you don't want to enforce it, you got to take it out. 01:15:14
It's hard to do. 01:15:18
Well, OK, let's say that it's a process. It's a process. 01:15:19
But if it's in there. 01:15:22
And they're out of line, then we should be able to say Chapter 62 said that's an ordinance that's. 01:15:25
What I would recommend. 01:15:31
Is that members of? 01:15:33
This Commission, you all. 01:15:34
Have conversations with City Council. 01:15:36
OK, because that's where it really that's where it went awry. 01:15:38
So I think that we said we're not going to follow. 01:15:42
An ordinance. 01:15:47
The body council did not explicitly say that, but they also didn't come out and say Director Sign is following the ordinance. 01:15:49
Pretty much back, but I remember that. I remember that experience. 01:15:55
I and I saw the bloodbath on social media. 01:15:59
I think the. 01:16:01
I'm just going to say. 01:16:03
I think there's, you know. 01:16:04
I mean, just because it's in there. 01:16:05
There's some circumstances like everything is not going to be enforceable. 01:16:08
Like there is just the politics of it. 01:16:12
Like in I disagree about that. I mean, but I'm saying like, yeah, the City Council with the City Council said, I mean, there's 01:16:14
been a couple of times where they've. 01:16:18
Gone back and said no, we're going to do that. 01:16:22
So we have an ordinance that's upheld by that can be upheld by the law, and our City Council can say we're not going to follow the 01:16:24
ordinance. 01:16:28
Is that what you just said? Yes. 01:16:32
I mean, because at the end of the day, they're. 01:16:34
If the people, I mean, they still represent the people. I think it's a conversation and I think you know when. 01:16:36
When development pressures are not intense. 01:16:42
In our historic district. 01:16:46
We may feel as though we can. 01:16:48
Work. 01:16:51
Within around. 01:16:52
The guidelines, but when development pressures start to become intense. 01:16:54
That's not a good position to be in. 01:16:59
Yeah, that's why I think we're working on them right now is probably important. 01:17:01
And can we can we give ourselves a? 01:17:05
An assignment and say over the next. 01:17:08
Two months because I know Thanksgiving and Christmas is coming. 01:17:10
If each of us. 01:17:14
Take a look at. 01:17:15
62. 01:17:17
And look at the ordinances and kind of. 01:17:18
Like make notes of OK maybe we need to. 01:17:20
Further discuss this, maybe there might. 01:17:23
Be some changes or maybe? 01:17:25
No, this definitely needs to be here, but. 01:17:27
Knowing that the current HPC as far as City Council is concerned. 01:17:29
That we back. 01:17:34
I mean we put. 01:17:35
You know, yeah, our. 01:17:36
We back up the ordinances as they are and it's not something that. 01:17:39
That has just. 01:17:44
Followed year after year after year. 01:17:46
No, this is it. This is an ordinance. It's a rule and. 01:17:50
We expect. 01:17:53
For City Council to back. 01:17:54
Well, if I may say, it's not just St. Mary's, it's every community that it happens in. 01:17:56
Trust me, I know. Yeah, I mean, and I and I think there's room for some leniency here. I mean, I remember the neon sign 01:18:02
conversation. Several people told me that neon signs are part of Saint Mary's historic character. So. 01:18:09
Hey, I don't really know. I'm just a transplant and what I got to go by is the ordinance, right? So, yeah. 01:18:16
You know, I think that's the most important part. 01:18:21
Is if it's there and it's on the books. 01:18:24
The minute somebody comes and complaints to me, it's right there in the ordinance. Why are you not enforcing it? 01:18:27
I got nothing to say. The research comes in too because yeah, maybe neons were part of, you know, back in the 20s or whatever. So. 01:18:34
So when we are looking at it. 01:18:39
We need to do our own research and see if Savannah's guidelines say there's neon and there's new neon, and that's a very. 01:18:44
Clear the division of things, but it's just really hard for me to understand how we. 01:18:52
How we find somebody? 01:18:58
We find somebody for not. 01:19:01
Following procedures and then there's other people that. 01:19:03
Aren't following procedures and were asked. 01:19:06
I think when you stand back, yeah, I mean. 01:19:09
But listen, I was there when Jamie got eaten alive. 01:19:12
I survived and social media and and the city and it's. 01:19:16
It's just very hard. I mean, if we don't feel like. 01:19:22
The neon is an issue. Let's. 01:19:24
Visit the ordinance and let's check it out. That's right, yeah. But along with that, there's some other things in there that have 01:19:26
got to be put in place. 01:19:30
And it's just odd to me that we have. 01:19:34
Section 62 and. 01:19:37
80% of it is signage. 01:19:38
And it's such a small piece of what if you go back to my report for City Council? 01:19:41
It's on there once. 01:19:46
I mean, there's so many other things on there that are that are more important than, but if we're, if we're going to start finding 01:19:47
people, people are going to look at her and go no. 01:19:51
Not paying $1000 fine for this you. 01:19:55
40 people here breaking. That's the problem. 01:19:58
Well, I mean to be to be clear, I guess the. 01:20:00
The staff is exercising. 01:20:04
Quite a bit of. 01:20:09
What's the word I want to use here? 01:20:13
You know there there are many. 01:20:15
Things that are in violation of the ordinance, but really the only thing that we're going after. 01:20:18
With the retroactive certificate of appropriateness. 01:20:23
Is if something was like a. 01:20:26
A large material change. 01:20:28
A roof, a story, you know, like these are significant things. It's not just, you know, so so I mean, I think. 01:20:30
It would be wise to also. 01:20:37
You know, just just normal updates to this ordinance are needed anyways. 01:20:39
Whether or not you want to totally overhaul the signage and we would support you in doing that in the way that staff does that, 01:20:44
you know, facilitate that process. 01:20:47
I'm gonna look at it too, yeah. 01:20:51
But yeah, great question, so. 01:20:54
What we have the grant for is the design guidelines. So if you could please have a look at that draft RFP, we'll send that to you 01:20:56
digitally as well as the Douglas. 01:21:00
Request for the City of Douglas. Request for proposals. 01:21:05
And that resource from the Georgia Department of Natural Resources, Jim, you'll be sending those via e-mail, please. 01:21:08
And please, again, be careful when you're replying. Do not reply to all or do not reply with the quorum. 01:21:14
Be careful with Roberts Rules on that. Yeah, I did not realize that till Page mentioned that. I am sorry. I should have said that 01:21:20
to you all. I never buy all mentioned it and we have a tendency to hit reply to all and we just got to be very careful if we're 01:21:26
going to do that. They need to be in work sessions or in meetings. 01:21:31
And the one thing I'll say too is the one thing I want to do is like. 01:21:36
I'm going to do a better job at. 01:21:41
Is there's so much work to be done? 01:21:43
Yeah, so working with the city. 01:21:46
To to make sure that we like. 01:21:47
Because you can get like in this process and we were there for a little bit, but I think we started moving really fast. 01:21:50
But I think we just got to like maintain everything. Like there's a lot of stuff to do. 01:21:55
Yeah, slide this chapter 62 this RFP the. 01:21:59
They're like one thing at a time, like, you know, moving multiple things at a time. 01:22:02
And one thing that I wanted to bring to your attention, which is along the lines of. 01:22:05
The guidelines and sort of your jurisdiction and also very much in keeping with the annual report goal of you know, knowing and 01:22:10
working with. 01:22:14
The city in my office on. 01:22:18
You know, developments within the historic district. 01:22:21
On November 3rd, City Council will. 01:22:25
Review and render a decision on. 01:22:28
A request for proposals for the adaptive reuse of 102 W Saint Mary St. 01:22:32
The Submarine Museum. 01:22:38
So this request for proposals, we just polished it up. 01:22:40
You know. 01:22:46
Georgia law prohibits the city from entering into. 01:22:49
Real estate transaction directly with the private developer, so the city signed an Interment. 01:22:52
Intergovernmental agreement. 01:22:57
With the Camden County Joint Development Authority. 01:23:00
A little bit ago this. 01:23:02
Request for proposals, which will again go out to private consultancies for potential. 01:23:05
Adaptive reuse and redevelopment. 01:23:11
Submissions and so the details are within this proposal. 01:23:14
Council will hear this. 01:23:18
On November 3rd and you know anything that does happen on that property. 01:23:22
Comes before you the RFP. 01:23:27
Kind of details that process. It details the zoning, It also gives a nice. 01:23:30
Sort of synopsis about the history of the structure. 01:23:35
So we can also share this with you. 01:23:39
That you're keeping, you know, on top of all those things. 01:23:42
Nice. Yeah. And I was going to ask so the. 01:23:47
Do we already? Do everybody feel comfortable with the exterior lighting? Do we? 01:23:50
Is there? Does that need to be discussed? 01:23:54
With a what? 01:23:55
The exterior lighting. 01:23:56
Or is that? No, I think no, I think it's just a. 01:23:58
It's. I would encourage you to read. 01:24:03
Chapter 62 and see where you think. 01:24:06
62. 01:24:10
I have read it and read it and I and I think Jamie's tired of hearing me my snippets of it. The bottom line is y'all it talks 01:24:12
about uplighting and down lighting and lighting over sidewalks and. 01:24:18
It never discusses the things that. 01:24:24
I wished it did. 01:24:26
You know, white lighting is very, very. 01:24:28
Quaint and nice in the District. There's nothing in there that says it has to be white. It does. There's nothing in there says it 01:24:30
can't flash and blink and. 01:24:34
Have strobe lighting. There's there's just nothing in 62 that says that. I wish that we could change that a little. I'm not asking 01:24:38
for. 01:24:42
Hard guidelines, but if just some consistency, but until 62 gets changed there's. 01:24:46
We can change it, there's nothing but. So again, that kind of goes back. I mean, maybe we should all. 01:24:51
Take a look at it. I think that's it would be very smart if we proposed. 01:24:56
Revisions to the ordinance, Chapter 62, which talked. 01:25:01
To the new guidelines. 01:25:05
We're going to need a working session on that too. Is like. 01:25:06
But I think Kelly's right. Yeah, one question. But I think if we. 01:25:09
Each took a chunk of it and reported on it. So we're not. 01:25:12
Sitting here for. 01:25:15
An hour and a half. 01:25:16
How many pages is it? 01:25:19
But a lot of the a lot of it doesn't need to be changed. A lot of it are. 01:25:23
Our quality, good guidelines, there's just some in there that. 01:25:27
It doesn't look that long. I mean, we can. 01:25:31
If you you can. 01:25:34
You know, we'll, we'll help you. Just just. 01:25:36
Take a gander. I think we should just take you through and make some. 01:25:38
Changes on it and bring the red marker. I think the more we can give it to if we can give, if we can give it to City Council. 01:25:41
If we give it the City Council with all the changes that we want for like a phase for like a year or two. 01:25:48
And there's probably going to be more successful. 01:25:53
Because they can just go through and. 01:25:55
You know, put the onus on them to review it. 01:25:57
Yeah, what could that Jamie's last? Yeah. All right. 01:26:00
OK, cracking. 01:26:05
Are we going straight to Kraken? We can. 01:26:06
The development authority of Saint Mary's, which was sort of behind the funding and moving that forward. 01:26:09
The wind has been removed from the sails. 01:26:16
So it's kind of a. 01:26:18
Kind of stalled right now. 01:26:20
So why is that? 01:26:22
Yeah, you know, honestly. 01:26:23
I don't think that we can, you know, and I'm just. 01:26:26
Being straight right now. 01:26:29
I don't think we can baby proof that. 01:26:31
I think that the. 01:26:34
The security concerns and looking at reduction of speed limit which we. 01:26:35
Can't really regulate anything below 25 miles an hour. 01:26:40
We're not going to be able to make it foolproof. 01:26:43
And I don't. 01:26:46
I don't really know where. 01:26:47
Council lies on that, our last discussion. 01:26:49
Wanted to revisit it and when I relayed that to DASM. 01:26:52
2000 just kind of put their hands up, so I don't know what it's going to take to get it. 01:26:56
I think maybe the city should look at Stable Alley. 01:27:02
On the. 01:27:05
East Side and. 01:27:06
Blocking part of that off is, if I may speak on that, that was one of my recommendations when I spoke to City Council on this 01:27:08
matter and. 01:27:12
I think Mayor Lockhart was very clear that some of the news development going on in the Marina. 01:27:17
Redirect of traffic made that I'm not a possibility. 01:27:22
But it was something that. 01:27:25
I don't, I just. 01:27:27
Seeing Aiken's alleyway, that was so lovely and. 01:27:28
And have the parklets and things like that. 01:27:32
There, that road is going to be a major there. They can't make that turn with anything in that area. So that got that got squashed 01:27:35
down, but we did open it up for. 01:27:40
So yeah. 01:27:44
I think that would have been. 01:27:46
Great alternative. I know the wind's been taken out of the sales show. I still have to tell you, I know Jimmy's worked really hard 01:27:47
with them, but I I think it's a win for our city that that's. 01:27:52
Quiet it down for right now. I was. 01:27:57
Very concerned. I have lived here a very very long time. 01:27:59
I know what goes on on those streets and I think while it's a beautiful and quaint idea, I think it was, I think it was dangerous. 01:28:02
So it is narrow. 01:28:10
Yeah, I mean it's. 01:28:15
Is hard. I mean it would be nice to have I I see the beauty and I guess. 01:28:16
See the vibrancy of it but. 01:28:20
I did. I did send something to Jamie that. 01:28:23
There was a map. 01:28:26
Yes. 01:28:27
That actually. 01:28:28
Tom and Beverly Cypress have a copy of this map and. 01:28:30
Very interesting that the area helped me with my streets. 01:28:33
From uh. 01:28:37
Kraken to. 01:28:38
Here, Bryant or Dillingham? 01:28:41
A closed. 01:28:45
City Park. 01:28:46
There was number parking. I mean there was number driving through that area. 01:28:47
I don't know what the what the part, but you know, it was actually you drove around and that was a park area with a huge fountain 01:28:51
in it at one point and here. 01:28:56
Yeah. And so. 01:29:01
Yeah, we could. 01:29:03
I don't know. I think I think if you ever want to, if you ever want to have people sitting in areas and in the and slowing the. 01:29:04
The flow of traffic in this area, that might be something to revisit at some point. Can we do that? Very pretty, yeah. 01:29:12
I think, yeah, yeah, I think, I think it would be a very long conversation with our downtown merchants. 01:29:19
Yeah, I just wanted to say my oldest son was in town visiting. 01:29:25
And, umm. 01:29:30
He likes iced coffee and we went to Kraken the other day and they did have some tables out with some umbrellas. 01:29:32
On the sidewalks, so they. 01:29:38
Are getting a little bit of outdoor space so. 01:29:40
May just be mute at this point. 01:29:44
You know, for all the reasons I think it's going to go for. 01:29:47
Eventually. 01:29:51
All right, the last thing I have for you, I know you want to go home, but I just want to put it on your radar and probably next 01:29:52
month. 01:29:55
We'll discuss it again. 01:29:59
The mayor has asked that I. 01:30:01
Engage professional professionals to do a parking study. 01:30:05
For downtown. 01:30:09
So that will be another request for proposals that comes forward. 01:30:10
You know, I'm hoping not paid there. Not like Fernandina Beach not. 01:30:16
No, we're nowhere near. We're nowhere near that. Those things happen. 01:30:22
Like I've been trying to. 01:30:26
Kind of explained that. 01:30:28
Cities will go through development patterns. 01:30:29
Which scale up to that. 01:30:32
Need, yeah. 01:30:35
But the first? 01:30:36
Kind of step is. 01:30:38
What are the appropriate uses in public parking spaces? And then we have to kind of. 01:30:39
Scale and then a lot of cities like the city of New Haven. 01:30:44
You know, they could never really meet their. 01:30:47
Off street parking requirements, so there were many variances that were granted. 01:30:50
And then that puts pressures on. 01:30:55
You know, umm. 01:30:57
Residential areas where there's commercial activity and someone who lives in an apartment can't find a place to park, right. So 01:30:58
these are just. 01:31:02
These are like steps in the city's development process, and that step is. 01:31:07
Yeah, we're not there, you know, we're over here. I just want to say something. I want to ask Julia, because you. 01:31:11
You've lived downtown. 01:31:17
Pretty much all your life. 01:31:19
During the day, I mean, it's like. 01:31:21
Lots of empty parking spaces and the only time is 4th of July. Scarecrow where I mean. 01:31:23
Medians are just full but. 01:31:29
I'm just hoping that doesn't mean. 01:31:32
Trying to add more. 01:31:34
Parking because during the day we. 01:31:36
Tons of parking. 01:31:38
Stretched out so I don't know what is your thought those are scenarios for. 01:31:40
And I've never not found parking when I. 01:31:45
Come down here for anything. 01:31:48
I think that is. 01:31:50
You've been here for a long time, but. 01:31:52
When I was stationary in 2002. 01:31:53
Like it was never busy down here. 01:31:57
And now like it's a lot easier than what it used to be. So I think eventually it will become and I think it really, really busy. 01:31:59
Block per block in the next 5 years probably. The waterfront is. 01:32:04
I mean, we're in pretty good shape. 01:32:08
Sometimes around the school, yeah, it gets a little City Hall seems to be pretty good. 01:32:10
And now we do have the parking being taken away from the ferry folks. Well, not right now again. 01:32:14
But that is being taken away, so they are using in the boats. 01:32:21
Who are going to the boat ramp? They are taking up space, which I think is what Greg probably is really. 01:32:24
Experiencing during that time again, not right now, the last. 01:32:30
A couple of weeks because we don't have the ferry going. 01:32:35
But it seems to be more of a mess and parking. 01:32:37
Centered there because that. 01:32:41
Parking for the ferry guests. 01:32:43
Has not been here. 01:32:46
Yeah. But anyway, I'm sorry, I just wanted to these are these are all good things. So we'll keep you involved in that process as 01:32:48
well. 01:32:51
Yeah, I was actually wondering what they were doing with the ferry parking. 01:32:56
I noticed it was sort of, it used to just sort of be a natural. Yeah. So there's space, so some previous pavers and there's a lot 01:33:01
of stormwater detention that's underground. That's why they had to kind of look. 01:33:06
Federal money. 01:33:11
But my understanding is that they will reestablish the parking with. 01:33:14
Previous papers and. 01:33:18
Maybe at a future date we'll put up a wall. 01:33:20
OK. Thank you. 01:33:23
Anymore. 01:33:26
Any more questions or concerns? 01:33:28
This is a really good meeting. 01:33:31
So what do you think about going home? 01:33:33
Motion to adjourn. We have a second. 01:33:34
I second that motion. All in favor. 01:33:38
All right. 01:33:41
Unanimous. 01:33:42
Am I supposed to do this? 01:33:44
Oh, I don't know, I just. 01:33:45