Meeting: City Council Work Session Storm Water Management

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Event transcript
	All right.	00:00:03
	I guess we down one, but we still have enough to start.	00:00:06
	I'm called to order the workshop session on the storm water management.	00:00:09
	And uh.	00:00:16
	I guess the.	00:00:21
	Main purpose of to.	00:00:22
	Of this particular discussion is uh.	00:00:24
	To see if we can't.	00:00:27
	Push this a little further down to.	00:00:29
	Implementation.	00:00:31
	Obviously one of the big cons.	00:00:33
	Issues still to be determined is the actual amount of the.	00:00:35
	And.	00:00:39
	We had some, we'll have some discussion a little bit about.	00:00:42
	Where we're going to start?	00:00:44
	Potentially in some of the.	00:00:46
	Pitfalls and areas and things that need to be addressed before we could actually implement.	00:00:48
	We said that was my kind of take on what we we should get accomplished here today.	00:00:54
	Mr. Horton, you want to start with anything or?	00:01:02
	Me just jump ball game boss.	00:01:05
	Our ball game.	00:01:07
	OK, so.	00:01:08
	As I said, everyone.	00:01:11
	One of the issues that I had.	00:01:13
	Been going around as.	00:01:15
	How this will affect?	00:01:17
	What they would call.	00:01:20
	Non single family residence uh structures and properties.	00:01:22
	And.	00:01:26
	I know that was one of the big concerns, I think from my understanding of.	00:01:29
	One just never got implemented.	00:01:32
	In the first place.	00:01:35
	And so.	00:01:37
	I've had numerous discussions back and forth with Mr. Blackerby.	00:01:40
	And uh.	00:01:44
	It is pretty apparent that, uh.	00:01:45
	This needs to be implemented just kind of across the board. Whatever it is, it is we start.	00:01:49
	Tampering with it.	00:01:54
	It legally takes on some.	00:01:56
	Potential.	00:01:59
	Opens up for liability for.	00:02:00
	For being sued about whether it's a tax or a fee or those those kinds of things if you try to.	00:02:02
	You know, do things that might offset for.	00:02:08
	For business versus residential or whatever?	00:02:10
	That's kind of where we are right this minute, so.	00:02:15
	You know, if anybody wanted to.	00:02:18
	Kind of speak on.	00:02:20
	What we're looking at, we have some revised projections that.	00:02:22
	That Mister Horton has provided us for.	00:02:26
	And of course this.	00:02:28
	2025 Figure of uh.	00:02:30
	$718,000.	00:02:32
	Potential total revenue would.	00:02:34
	Would certainly be less than that this first year, since we would be.	00:02:36
	Not implementing for.	00:02:40
	Probably at least another month or two so.	00:02:42
	Umm, you know that would be minimized the first year and.	00:02:44
	Does everybody have that policy?	00:02:49
	848.	00:02:53
	OK.	00:03:00
	So are we doing this?	00:03:03
	At the five hours.	00:03:05
	Her that's.	00:03:06
	That's the. That's the.	00:03:08
	This is the best part of the question here, I guess tonight. I mean, that's what this.	00:03:10
	But that's what this projection is based on.	00:03:14
	Umm, you know I had some data from.	00:03:17
	I inherited.	00:03:20
	I have study here. I guess that was done on a few properties.	00:03:22
	As to what that might mean, you know.	00:03:27
	Some commercial properties that have.	00:03:29
	Large parking lots and are pretty much.	00:03:33
	Close to 100%.	00:03:37
	Impervious.	00:03:38
	You know, could end kinda.	00:03:42
	You know, $634 storm water fee.	00:03:45
	Compared to at the time.	00:03:52
	This was done back in 21.	00:03:54
	$480 in taxes, so stormwater fee could actually end up being.	00:03:57
	Larger than you know, than somebody's actual.	00:04:03
	Taxes.	00:04:06
	At the top.	00:04:07
	Impervious surface.	00:04:13
	Commercial.	00:04:15
	No, this was just a.	00:04:16
	I think a survey a random survey of some properties.	00:04:18
	That Mayor? Morrissey had asked.	00:04:22
	To have these figured on.	00:04:24
	I'll pass it down. You can take a look at it, but.	00:04:26
	It's not necessarily.	00:04:29
	You know the top.	00:04:31
	Top ones or whatever. It was just kind of a random.	00:04:32
	Best I can tell like a.	00:04:34
	Just kind of a random sampling of some different properties and how it might.	00:04:36
	The impact being there.	00:04:42
	Based on their percentage of impervious surface and.	00:04:44
	Of course, one of the other.	00:04:48
	You know one of the other big components to this that.	00:04:50
	Is the credit manual implementation of the credit manual?	00:04:53
	And administration of those.	00:04:58
	Of that credit policy as far.	00:05:01
	Umm, you know who's who? Who is our individual that's going to be making those determinations.	00:05:04
	And uh.	00:05:11
	Where that person's coming from so.	00:05:11
	Thanks.	00:05:18
	And different this one I got it.	00:05:28
	Perhaps Mr. Maher, if you would.	00:05:59
	Are you, are you kind of prepared to talk to us about?	00:06:02
	Some of the critical first projects that.	00:06:05
	We might want to look at and what kind of number.	00:06:09
	That would be to give us a little basis for.	00:06:13
	What kind of fee we're looking at maybe and what we can do is?	00:06:17
	Those fees if we have them.	00:06:21
	Yes, Thank you, Mayor.	00:06:23
	I am.	00:06:26
	Yeah, I passed out.	00:06:28
	A little handout.	00:06:29
	Every podium.	00:06:31
	For everyone.	00:06:33
	And if you look at that list.	00:06:34
	Kind of looks like.	00:06:39
	Yes, this is taken from the city's storm water master plan and then the updated.	00:06:41
	Freeze nickel study for the water, sewer and storm water master plan.	00:06:49
	This is a comp.	00:06:53
	Compilation of those projects.	00:06:54
	The first page.	00:06:57
	Is all the priority.	00:06:58
	Projects that were rated from the Thomas and Hutton study from the storm Water utility.	00:07:02
	Task Force.	00:07:07
	And freezer nickels.	00:07:08
	To bank, so that's what if you look at the priority.	00:07:11
	This first page is a list of the priority ones.	00:07:14
	Well, we did a public works. We took it.	00:07:18
	And we put it.	00:07:20
	There was not a.	00:07:23
	Project order.	00:07:25
	Per se, in the master plan it.	00:07:26
	Of priority one.	00:07:28
	A priority two, priority three, or or long range.	00:07:30
	Kind of stuff so.	00:07:34
	So we took the priority one projects.	00:07:35
	And this is Iowa our.	00:07:38
	Public works.	00:07:41
	Prioritization.	00:07:44
	For instance, the Bartlett St. projects.	00:07:46
	Doesn't make sense to do the up.	00:07:49
	Stream before you do the downstream.	00:07:51
	So we just put them in that kind of.	00:07:54
	Kind of order and stuff.	00:07:55
	But these are all.	00:07:58
	Kind of the top rated projects.	00:08:01
	OK, so.	00:08:05
	Then we took these are.	00:08:06
	You will see some.	00:08:09
	Oh, and we also incorporated that.	00:08:11
	Study from Crooked River Plantation.	00:08:13
	That was presented to council.	00:08:15
	Couple months ago.	00:08:17
	We incorporated those.	00:08:18
	Into the room.	00:08:20
	What they had as priority one.	00:08:21
	Projects as well.	00:08:25
	But we don't have any.	00:08:27
	Costs associated with those yet because we haven't even.	00:08:28
	Got survey done.	00:08:31
	To be able to even.	00:08:33
	Start coming up with a solution.	00:08:35
	So. But if you take.	00:08:37
	The priority one.	00:08:39
	Projects.	00:08:42
	And these are based on 2019.	00:08:44
	Numbers. They haven't extrapolated out the current dollars, but 2019.	00:08:47
	Jesse's priority one.	00:08:53
	And not even including this bottom project which was listed.	00:08:55
	Which was on there as.	00:08:58
	That's now to now.	00:09:03
	That was playing from Colerain Oaks Trailer park.	00:09:05
	Down through an existing wetland.	00:09:08
	Building the canal through the wetlands.	00:09:11
	Down to the fire station.	00:09:14
	Coming in behind the fire station.	00:09:15
	I don't even think that's a formidable project.	00:09:17
	Anymore so.	00:09:21
	Not even counting that $2 million project.	00:09:22
	Back then.	00:09:25
	The rest of the projects.	00:09:26
	Not counting.	00:09:28
	Or.	00:09:30
	Roughly 1.4 million.	00:09:33
	And then if you look at the Crooked River.	00:09:35
	Probably in the neighborhood too.	00:09:37
	$2,000,000 for just the first page.	00:09:39
	And if we're looking 5 to 7?	00:09:43
	$100,000.	00:09:45
	A year and in revenues.	00:09:47
	Then that's just this first page could take.	00:09:50
	Four to five years.	00:09:54
	In current dollars.	00:09:56
	So. So anyway, we didn't go through and prioritize.	00:09:58
	All the twos and threes.	00:10:03
	Around the following pages because.	00:10:05
	By the time we get done with the first.	00:10:07
	That something could change anyway.	00:10:10
	So for example.	00:10:13
	Of the first project we got up here.	00:10:15
	$639,141.	00:10:17
	For Bartlett St. and Alexander St.	00:10:21
	Is that?	00:10:26
	What of that project? I guess I mean.	00:10:28
	I know probably the four by 9 double box culvert based on other discussion we had.	00:10:32
	We would probably.	00:10:36
	That would be the kind of thing we'd have to.	00:10:38
	Contract out because of.	00:10:40
	Correct cave in type in the.	00:10:42
	Balls, whatever those retaining walls are, that kind of stuff. But some of the segments of the piping and stuff would.	00:10:45
	Is there is there any in-house capability in this project or what we?	00:10:52
	There is and if you look at some of these costs.	00:10:57
	They're reflected there as well.	00:10:59
	When the skiff's cutting the road.	00:11:02
	Changing the pipe out, increasing the pipe size.	00:11:04
	Adding a second pipe, those kind of things.	00:11:07
	Yes.	00:11:10
	That's part of those that old ditch crew.	00:11:12
	Or.	00:11:15
	In-house staffing.	00:11:17
	You can do all right.	00:11:19
	$600,000 project, can that be broken down and just?	00:11:22
	Achievable segments because the first year we.	00:11:26
	Won't have that kind of money, but can we?	00:11:29
	Are we able to start on any of those or do we have to be able to fully?	00:11:32
	No, it doesn't have to be there's.	00:11:38
	Like these projects?	00:11:40
	Like on this particular one.	00:11:42
	You can see that there's 24 inch pipes and 36 inch pipe and the box culvert. There's other pieces that can get started.	00:11:44
	And.	00:11:51
	Storm water right away parks.	00:11:54
	Yes, ma'am.	00:11:58
	It doesn't have to be the total project.	00:11:59
	And and that's why the.	00:12:02
	All the notes.	00:12:05
	That's why you can see how it's broken down on those different things to let you know it's not a single.	00:12:06
	Single item.	00:12:12
	Talking that much is part of a larger project.	00:12:13
	This really addresses one of my concerns I wanted.	00:12:16
	I was hoping that we could restrict the use.	00:12:21
	The only capital improvement either infrastructure or equipment specific equipment.	00:12:28
	To achieve the drainage.	00:12:38
	Benefits and stormwater management benefits if you wanted to.	00:12:40
	And not allocate.	00:12:46
	Some costs such as personnel, that kind of thing.	00:12:47
	I think Mr. Moore's.	00:12:52
	Willing to make a recommendation if council will under here.	00:13:00
	Well, you just nailed it through.	00:13:08
	I would recommend that the money.	00:13:09
	This range from the fund.	00:13:11
	Exactly that we paid.	00:13:13
	For those capital projects.	00:13:15
	In.	00:13:18
	Contracted out when we need to.	00:13:19
	Kind of stuff. The engine.	00:13:21
	There will be some the engine.	00:13:23
	Required for.	00:13:25
	On equipment.	00:13:26
	There's some other equipment that would help us.	00:13:29
	Being able to.	00:13:32
	To clean up and maintain.	00:13:33
	Especially some of these real tight easements.	00:13:35
	Between homes.	00:13:38
	And stuff.	00:13:39
	Very narrow that we can't get our equipment into.	00:13:41
	Too tight. Plus it's wet kind of stuff.	00:13:45
	So that that would be.	00:13:48
	What I would say.	00:13:50
	Since we're already.	00:13:51
	Budgeted, uh.	00:13:53
	Or at least in the current year, we're already budgeted with staff.	00:13:54
	We already got budget for.	00:13:57
	Our existing equipment we've already got budgeted for.	00:13:59
	Our uniforms, all those operating costs.	00:14:03
	So I'd say let's build up that capital.	00:14:08
	Build up that.	00:14:11
	Find to be able to.	00:14:13
	To put.	00:14:15
	Directly towards projects.	00:14:16
	Right. So just to make sure we're on the same page, what you're saying is?	00:14:18
	In the perpetuity of this.	00:14:24
	We would never allocate.	00:14:27
	What I would consider to be sunk costs. In other words, we have a dedicated ditch.	00:14:29
	And then we have other. I mean, we also have.	00:14:36
	You know some implementation costs. For instance, I'm curious about mechanics of.	00:14:40
	Billing and collecting.	00:14:49
	Would be if that would be done with water bills.	00:14:51
	And that's.	00:14:56
	That's something that would have to address her.	00:14:58
	That's that's kind of the way it's laid out in the.	00:15:03
	In the plan.	00:15:06
	And to your point.	00:15:08
	Miss Kane, I also sent this to everyone.	00:15:10
	Which is the financial analysis?	00:15:14
	And the hybrid?	00:15:17
	Thinking, I guess, his wife.	00:15:19
	You're learning more.	00:15:20
	The.	00:15:23
	Thinking is more.	00:15:24
	What's recommended from what I gather out of the document?	00:15:25
	With meaning that.	00:15:30
	You've got.	00:15:32
	A big chunk coming out of general fund, but you also have the.	00:15:34
	Another chunk of money.	00:15:37
	Allocated for.	00:15:40
	The capital improvements and some of those other costs.	00:15:42
	That you're talking about.	00:15:45
	If that makes sense. That's it's recommended.	00:15:48
	Process, yeah.	00:15:51
	I would also recommend that the existing kind of operational costs that we have for normal.	00:15:53
	Covert repairs.	00:16:00
	Sinkhole repairs, those kind of Rd. things.	00:16:04
	Be left in the budget, away from.	00:16:06
	The storm or the utility?	00:16:08
	That's just my recommendation.	00:16:12
	I really agree with your recommendation because.	00:16:15
	That we don't get ourselves in a bar and.	00:16:18
	We can always move from.	00:16:21
	One project to the other without.	00:16:23
	Any necessary?	00:16:25
	Right, and real quick, before I forget, I also gave you.	00:16:28
	Map that looks like this.	00:16:31
	This is just kind of graphical depiction of where all the projects are located.	00:16:34
	So just to give you an idea.	00:16:38
	It's not a single area of the city.	00:16:40
	And throughout the whole city for the projects.	00:16:42
	That are identified.	00:16:45
	In this list.	00:16:47
	Are located.	00:16:48
	Well, I got you up here. Bobby, can I ask?	00:16:51
	I know after GMA and.	00:16:56
	Some discussion there.	00:16:58
	And are y'all at a point where you're?	00:17:00
	Make some recommendations about.	00:17:04
	Private culvert.	00:17:06
	Cleaning.	00:17:08
	And Mr. Riley out there sent us all a memo earlier today.	00:17:09
	With.	00:17:13
	A recommendation we might consider a.	00:17:16
	A revolving fund of sorts, that.	00:17:19
	You know where?	00:17:23
	Where if we have.	00:17:24
	A situation where.	00:17:26
	A private driveway is impacted or you know.	00:17:28
	You know, needs to be.	00:17:32
	Cut up, taken out, or whatever you know in order to.	00:17:33
	You know affect a repair that was is causing.	00:17:36
	Issues for everyone upstream because.	00:17:40
	It's not draining underneath somebody's driveway.	00:17:43
	That, uh.	00:17:45
	There might be a way to.	00:17:47
	You know, finance the cost of that at a lower cost for them.	00:17:49
	By having the city involved in the repair.	00:17:52
	And then them paying a, you know.	00:17:55
	I mean that be administrative ordinance thing we have to put in place but.	00:17:57
	You know, I like, I like the concept of it that.	00:18:02
	You know, we could go ahead and get the repair done.	00:18:06
	You know, and then.	00:18:08
	You know, because a lot of times it is a personal financial.	00:18:09
	You know, stumbling block that keeps people from.	00:18:13
	Fixing or cleaning out these culverts or, you know, making the repairs themselves or whatever.	00:18:16
	And we can find a way to make a little more cost effective for them to.	00:18:22
	To do that, it impacts.	00:18:25
	You know, everyone upstream from them.	00:18:27
	To get the kind of drainage that.	00:18:30
	You know that they're not going to get if that particular culvert is blocked or whatever, but.	00:18:31
	That was kind of but, you know.	00:18:36
	Have you all kind of evaluated more the augers, the water jets, the different kinds of things that we have, the jetting technology	00:18:38
	and the auger?	00:18:43
	Say it's 4344 thousand.	00:18:47
	For it.	00:18:50
	However.	00:18:53
	Well, I do.	00:18:55
	Think there should be some type of program?	00:18:56
	I don't think it should come.	00:18:59
	From the storm water utility funds.	00:19:01
	I think that needs to be set up as a totally separate.	00:19:03
	Item however.	00:19:09
	That structure.	00:19:11
	That way we don't take away because.	00:19:12
	Quite frankly, there are so many.	00:19:15
	Covert that you could easily eat up.	00:19:16
	Your whole revenue stream.	00:19:19
	A gift in those top.	00:19:21
	Replace culvert replacements and not be able to do the projects that are needed.	00:19:22
	Once again in my opinion.	00:19:28
	Have not had this question.	00:19:30
	Do you have any recommendation for alternate programs then?	00:19:32
	I mean, I thought Mr. Riley had a good idea, but what would be an example of an alternate program that doesn't take away from the	00:19:35
	stormwater utility?	00:19:38
	Funding. I'm talking strictly the funding.	00:19:42
	You know, let's say we set aside different funds from the stormwater utility.	00:19:45
	If we were to offer a program like Mr. Riley was suggesting for.	00:19:49
	Revolving loan fund.	00:19:53
	Just don't tie it to.	00:19:56
	The revenues for the storm water utility.	00:19:58
	Yeah, I mean, you know, potential.	00:20:03
	You know, fund equity situation or something that we could fund that.	00:20:07
	That program with, you know.	00:20:11
	Understanding that.	00:20:13
	Overtime, we're gonna.	00:20:14
	Should be getting paid back, you know you know by.	00:20:16
	Father's residence is on there.	00:20:20
	I mean.	00:20:29
	You know, yeah, I mean, I say, I think we've talked about that before that.	00:20:31
	But not necessarily financially. We haven't talked about that, but about.	00:20:36
	You know the cost to repair these things. I mean the need to repair could be critical.	00:20:40
	Cost of repair could be.	00:20:46
	Something that we as.	00:20:48
	You know, not to impinge on private business, but you know when we need to get it done and.	00:20:50
	And a homeowner can't afford to pay a private contractor. You know where where we stand there we stand at an impasse.	00:20:55
	And that's going to have.	00:21:01
	And so you know.	00:21:02
	Having a mechanism that allows us to.	00:21:04
	To go in and do this and at least offer.	00:21:06
	You know.	00:21:10
	Yeah.	00:21:11
	Yeah, with the attorney.	00:21:17
	Make sure that that's legal.	00:21:19
	But.	00:21:21
	You know, there would have to be some type of agreement where I guess that would be.	00:21:22
	An additional. I don't know if you can apply an additional.	00:21:25
	Loan repayment to the water bill utility bill with.	00:21:28
	I mean, I'm not aware of any private industry out there now that's going around offering.	00:21:31
	You know, culvert cleaning and whatever.	00:21:35
	You know, so we're not necessarily stepping on anybody's toes right now, you know, but.	00:21:38
	Right there is a model out.	00:21:43
	You know that we use whenever we did the Gaines Davis.	00:21:44
	Water and sewer.	00:21:47
	Installation.	00:21:50
	That there was capital recovery fees and stuff.	00:21:51
	The residents.	00:21:54
	Could pay it back overtime.	00:21:57
	Versus all at once.	00:21:58
	And just one of my concerns is, you know, just back to the.	00:22:03
	Impact of the.	00:22:07
	The fee itself, especially when it comes to the larger properties with the impervious services, you know, I know we have like say	00:22:08
	Walmart, that's obviously a big one.	00:22:12
	You know.	00:22:17
	They're a large company, I'm sure they won't like it, but.	00:22:18
	They could absorb it, but like, you know my.	00:22:20
	You know, while I'm concerned for everybody's, you know, tax collection increasing.	00:22:22
	You know, I wouldn't want it to be a deterrent.	00:22:27
	You know for the larger properties that we have pending rehab like the old bag plan, you know that's the company that's.	00:22:29
	You know, potentially coming in to fix that building up and then there.	00:22:34
	You know, have their financial model set up and then we hit them with a fee that could be larger than their property taxes. Like	00:22:37
	that's just one of the concerns that we really need to put some thought into and see if there's any way to possibly work it out.	00:22:42
	That's where that wouldn't be a deterrent.	00:22:48
	You know you like pig Metal Studio is a big new project as well that you know has funding and they're.	00:22:50
	You know, with their power issue, you know, they, they, they.	00:22:55
	You know, increasing their budget for this project that they have. So it just.	00:22:57
	I want to make sure we're not making something that's going to be.	00:23:02
	A deterrent for business in Saint Mary's as well.	00:23:04
	Right. And that that's where the credit manual?	00:23:07
	Kind of comes in.	00:23:09
	Doesn't solve the.	00:23:10
	Solve that total issue, but it gives options and these commercial entities are.	00:23:11
	Are better apartment to take advantage of those?	00:23:16
	I don't see in that credit manual.	00:23:19
	To reduce up to 50% total.	00:23:22
	Never can go below that 50%.	00:23:25
	Total credit, one of the things I was reading through the manual.	00:23:28
	Earlier.	00:23:32
	And uh.	00:23:32
	Some of the green initiatives and and low impact.	00:23:34
	Initiatives that are in there.	00:23:37
	Yeah, Councilwoman McCain and I were discussing earlier. She sent me some photos from.	00:23:39
	North Carolina somewhere.	00:23:45
	Tennessee.	00:23:47
	Pervious surface.	00:23:50
	Parking lots where they.	00:23:51
	Lay down these plastic grids of sort.	00:23:53
	And then fill it in with a.	00:23:55
	Crushed down and I guess they might have some sort of.	00:23:57
	Epoxy or something that helps hold it in place or whatever but it.	00:24:01
	You know it creates a.	00:24:03
	A parking area that's you know.	00:24:05
	The water can drain through and we have credits for those kinds of things in the manual and.	00:24:07
	Encourage those kinds of things because.	00:24:12
	The city is going to have its own fair share of.	00:24:14
	We're not a surface in the current parking lot if we don't find some mitigation things.	00:24:18
	Out there in the new City Hall. So, uh.	00:24:24
	You know, some things to definitely consider practices.	00:24:27
	Process you were talking about with the grid system with the.	00:24:31
	Stone and all the Hilton.	00:24:34
	Down in Orlando.	00:24:36
	Adjacent to the.	00:24:38
	Convention Center.	00:24:39
	They have that exact.	00:24:41
	A similar might not be exact one, but a similar type.	00:24:42
	Parking area.	00:24:45
	That looks like a grass.	00:24:46
	Kind of area, but it's.	00:24:49
	Impervious.	00:24:51
	Through a grid system.	00:24:52
	So yeah, what about the?	00:24:54
	Credit Manual. Administrative.	00:24:56
	Requirements.	00:24:59
	The credit manual references the stormwater management.	00:25:01
	Manager.	00:25:07
	Have a little more discussion, consensus about the money?	00:25:10
	And then we'll get into implementation administration.	00:25:14
	All right, so anybody else have any other feet?	00:25:18
	Concerns or questions about the fee amount of dollars I.	00:25:22
	You know, I think the $5 is good.	00:25:25
	I'm wondering for is.	00:25:30
	You pointed out on that list there are quite a few.	00:25:32
	Businesses that have a rather large impact.	00:25:36
	So and I know we have to do everything across the board.	00:25:40
	If we implement it.	00:25:45
	Do we want to give?	00:25:48
	Some sort of?	00:25:49
	Phase in.	00:25:52
	In other words, we implement it, but it begins on.	00:25:55
	Such and such a date in the future.	00:25:58
	And get some information out there to the.	00:26:01
	Community about how much it's gonna.	00:26:06
	What it's going to look like.	00:26:08
	For them.	00:26:10
	Absolutely, Yeah. I mean, I think.	00:26:11
	And they said it.	00:26:13
	You know, storm water.	00:26:15
	Committee said it, and you know the.	00:26:16
	Importance of.	00:26:18
	Public relations and education marketing of.	00:26:20
	Of this program.	00:26:22
	Going to be very integral to, you know, rolling it out. Everybody understands.	00:26:24
	What options are before them for the?	00:26:29
	'Cause you know even.	00:26:31
	Single family residences have some.	00:26:33
	Some some options.	00:26:36
	For, you know, mitigating their fee.	00:26:38
	Based on.	00:26:41
	You know some of the things within the credit manual so.	00:26:42
	And like I said, getting, getting ourselves set up and being prepared.	00:26:46
	For the influx of.	00:26:49
	Applications for credits and those kinds of things is going to be a big part to make sure we're ready.	00:26:51
	If we if we start this program, so it's not something we can.	00:26:58
	Decide the night and start next week. It's going to take a little time to.	00:27:02
	To get all the ducks in a row and decide you know exactly.	00:27:06
	You know the processes and procedures for.	00:27:09
	You know how all this is.	00:27:12
	Have to happen but.	00:27:14
	Umm, I don't, I'm not even opposed like you said to, you know, a phase in.	00:27:18
	Potentially of the fee, I mean it does slow this process down.	00:27:23
	You know, but if we started it.	00:27:27
	You know, 250 for the first year and then rolled out at $5.00 the second year or something, you know.	00:27:29
	I don't know if that makes that much.	00:27:35
	A difference to the businesses and that kind of stuff. They're just bigger impact. You know me.	00:27:37
	Typical single family residence, $5 per month.	00:27:42
	60 bucks a year so.	00:27:46
	30 or 60?	00:27:47
	Probably not.	00:27:49
	Major thing one way, the other for the.	00:27:50
	For a business that might make a difference, but for the businesses it can, it could make a pretty big difference to get.	00:27:52
	To get rolled out and prepared for in their budget.	00:27:58
	You know, umm.	00:28:01
	You know, especially starting midstream depending on where their fiscal years are and those kinds of things. So.	00:28:03
	Umm, you know, set setting a time to start in the in the.	00:28:08
	In the in the future, but also.	00:28:13
	A potential for a phase in you know it might be a reasonable.	00:28:16
	You know, accommodation to make.	00:28:20
	Would it create any?	00:28:24
	Difficulty in changing the rate, say from 2:50 to $5 on the building.	00:28:26
	Is that a pretty?	00:28:32
	Easy time today.	00:28:33
	That would be just a simple change of the system.	00:28:35
	It would be.	00:28:42
	So like a soft rollout that would?	00:28:49
	You know, get the.	00:28:52
	Fee structure just kind of started see what it does you know business to the businesses of the larger services.	00:28:53
	Like say we.	00:29:00
	Get this implemented before the end of the year and then by say July 1, when our new budget starts, then we.	00:29:01
	You know, prep for the.	00:29:07
	You know, normal normal rate or something.	00:29:08
	Something of that sort.	00:29:10
	Yeah, we could.	00:29:12
	Put some sort of calculator on the website where you can.	00:29:14
	Take the unit.	00:29:18
	And people can go in there and enter how many units they have and what the rate is and kind of get an idea, explain to them that	00:29:19
	includes parking.	00:29:24
	Not only.	00:29:28
	Roof but parking.	00:29:30
	Now we don't have a.	00:29:33
	For commercial?	00:29:35
	Right now.	00:29:36
	Residents can.	00:29:37
	Find out the.	00:29:39
	The amount of.	00:29:41
	Coverage on their particular property, do we I mean.	00:29:43
	I mean inside the.	00:29:46
	Analysis.	00:29:49
	I want to say it was in the analysis I read so much.	00:29:51
	Seems like there was a.	00:29:54
	All with all the different options that are available.	00:29:55
	Maybe taking that piece and building around that for.	00:29:59
	People can can calculate.	00:30:03
	Umm.	00:30:05
	Taking the original.	00:30:08
	Kind of doing it by GIS, right, I mean.	00:30:10
	You know, taking over an overview and.	00:30:12
	In the original database that GNC had prepared.	00:30:15
	For the rollout?	00:30:18
	This Initially they did a rough.	00:30:20
	Kind of magnitude or?	00:30:24
	Aerial photography. Just kind of.	00:30:28
	Making some assumptions on the commercial.	00:30:30
	Now whether they did that for every commercial property, I don't remember. They did.	00:30:33
	They didn't. It was just certain.	00:30:38
	Certain ones.	00:30:41
	But that would be.	00:30:44
	About the only.	00:30:45
	Kind of fall apart.	00:30:47
	To get is trying to look at an area when just trying to draw a box around so.	00:30:49
	To avoid.	00:30:54
	Confusion on measuring that.	00:30:55
	Would we?	00:30:58
	Use that for all commercial properties.	00:31:00
	Yeah. So then.	00:31:04
	Because there's a caveat in residential that you can also lower your.	00:31:07
	They are using residential.	00:31:10
	But it has to meet certain criteria.	00:31:13
	If you don't have that 3700 and.	00:31:17
	There's a gap in there, some below a certain percentage.	00:31:21
	Then you're you're able to come to, you've got to have a.	00:31:26
	Survey, look at your property and all this.	00:31:31
	I think there's a 2 acre property and you have less than 10%. That's one of the one of the things, but there's a number of other.	00:31:34
	There's several things that you can use but.	00:31:42
	That, but that would be used only the oil that is specified in the in the document.	00:31:45
	But that database would need to be updated.	00:31:52
	And this background.	00:31:55
	2019.	00:31:56
	There's a lot of property.	00:31:58
	That's it.	00:32:03
	I just wonder.	00:32:07
	We've got several members of Stormwater Committee out in the audience, if there's any.	00:32:09
	Any input based on kind of what we've been talking about?	00:32:13
	Come on up to this.	00:32:18
	Michael, if you don't mind Mr. Sale?	00:32:19
	Hello, Tommy Sailors.	00:32:24
	One of the recommendations you had on commercial property was to not.	00:32:27
	Charge them more than 50%.	00:32:32
	Of their.	00:32:35
	Tax. That was kind of 1.	00:32:37
	Way we could keep that fee down.	00:32:40
	On theirs, even if you're charging them.	00:32:42
	$3.	00:32:44
	Purse was a square foot.	00:32:47
	Hurt $3.	00:32:49
	For EU.	00:32:52
	And still look at, you know have a way to calculate.	00:32:54
	The way to be less than their tech?	00:32:56
	50% of the tax.	00:32:58
	Yeah.	00:33:01
	That was just.	00:33:03
	Well, no, but that's the way.	00:33:05
	Is not a tax, but it's a way to keep the fee down.	00:33:07
	You know some parameter you can put out there for that. Was that actually reviewed say by the city attorney like?	00:33:10
	That that would be, you know, like legal stars, the integrity of the fee and not be challenged well.	00:33:17
	I think we've got some information now from.	00:33:21
	I kind of explored a number of different options with Mr. BlackBerry as to ways to.	00:33:25
	Potentially limit.	00:33:30
	You know the impact on in.	00:33:32
	And pretty much.	00:33:34
	What he kept coming back to was.	00:33:37
	When imposed on a property, a tax must.	00:33:39
	Be based on property value but.	00:33:41
	For the fee.	00:33:46
	Anyway, going into this four page essay.	00:33:48
	Yeah, that, He responded.	00:33:51
	Pretty much the feedies remain applicable to all properties including tax, Infinity, church and other properties.	00:33:53
	You know any kind of?	00:34:00
	Staging like that, it takes it off of the actual.	00:34:03
	Impervious surface or that metric?	00:34:06
	You know, gonna get in trouble.	00:34:09
	Creates an option for liability. You know, because.	00:34:11
	You know it's no longer fee based on a specific.	00:34:15
	Condition of impervious surface or whatever.	00:34:18
	So yeah, I shot him four or five different options for things we might consider and that seemed to be.	00:34:22
	Not really an option for us.	00:34:30
	I just think at the time that we we talked about a $3 user fee.	00:34:33
	For.	00:34:37
	Commercial property, not 5.	00:34:38
	Else and you couldn't do 3 for commercial and.	00:34:39
	And buy for residential, right? You can't, yeah.	00:34:43
	Yeah, it has to be across the board based on what he was.	00:34:46
	Oh, yeah, All right.	00:34:49
	3 is what I was thinking until I saw these numbers and saw that the first project can't even.	00:34:54
	Really be covered?	00:34:58
	With first year's revenue, remember something when you look at the numbers now.	00:35:00
	All of the commercial.	00:35:04
	Numbers aren't there.	00:35:06
	OK, that is just a.	00:35:08
	A snapshot of the numbers that.	00:35:10
	On this list.	00:35:12
	Right, right. OK. Yeah, GMC provided this list and I want to say it was like.	00:35:14
	30 different businesses.	00:35:18
	And those, those are the numbers. That's reason you see it staying the same all across the board.	00:35:21
	But that was just to give you a snapshot of.	00:35:26
	Of seeing what would be.	00:35:29
	And this also these projections.	00:35:32
	Also do not include any potential credits.	00:35:34
	That people could apply for and receive.	00:35:37
	You know so.	00:35:40
	It's going to take a year or two to kind of figure out where we're actually going to end up on an annual basis with.	00:35:41
	With revenue.	00:35:47
	Yeah, that's all I had now. Thank you. So rather than.	00:35:49
	Because you're upping it like you implement it.	00:35:53
	And then you hit them again. If you update in years to come rather.	00:35:55
	Than just ripping the Band-Aid off. Wouldn't it just be better?	00:35:58
	I mean does it do it right off the RIP and then not have to keep going back and changing?	00:36:02
	And behalf of the stormwater committee, I really appreciate y'all taking this up and getting closer through. I only get an	00:36:09
	implementer because we're after.	00:36:12
	It's needed in the city.	00:36:16
	Then identify yourself, please. David Riley.	00:36:18
	Fensex to Greenwell Saint Mary's.	00:36:22
	OK, I didn't hear anybody else do what's trying to.	00:36:25
	But anyway, with respect.	00:36:29
	To the thieves.	00:36:31
	And we call our face, I mean there's other places have been that mistaken where we have a business fee.	00:36:33
	A fee for businesses and a fee for.	00:36:40
	Residential.	00:36:43
	And I think.	00:36:45
	From that standpoint, that may.	00:36:46
	Be a way to get by these high fees for businesses so.	00:36:48
	Just ask that you take a deeper look at that.	00:36:53
	And talk about it from that aspect because it's not making.	00:36:55
	People, it's really making it consistent.	00:37:02
	With what makes good sense for the city.	00:37:05
	When they implement this thing, and that's the thing that hung us up, I would say the most.	00:37:08
	During the development of this and when we presented it.	00:37:12
	The Council that in 2019, I think it was.	00:37:17
	About that so.	00:37:21
	Anyway, those are my comments and thanks for taking this up and getting on with what we didn't finish last council.	00:37:22
	Thank you. Thank you for your letter too.	00:37:29
	Yes, Sir.	00:37:33
	Yeah. I mean, like I said, I think, you know, we can certainly go back and ask that specifically with.	00:37:39
	With Mr. Black, one of the things he.	00:37:44
	Said the Georgia court supply four part test.	00:37:48
	Charge is more likely to be a tax if it is.	00:37:51
	If it raises general revenue based on the ability to pay.	00:37:54
	Is mandatory is unrelated to the payers contribution to the problem.	00:37:58
	Or burden on the government.	00:38:02
	And does not confer a special benefit on the payer.	00:38:04
	You know whether.	00:38:08
	That you know the kind of questions, I mean those those businesses.	00:38:09
	Certainly have as much.	00:38:13
	Impact as a As a.	00:38:15
	You know single family residence does you know whether or not.	00:38:18
	That can be done or not, but that would be a specific question for him. But.	00:38:21
	What?	00:38:27
	What's everybody kind of feel about what Jeremy said about?	00:38:29
	Ripping the Band-Aid and.	00:38:31
	Or staggering it in there.	00:38:33
	And I'm feeling which way we should be looking at.	00:38:35
	I say let's just go ahead and do it, yeah.	00:38:41
	Yeah, I would just say this.	00:38:44
	As long as we give.	00:38:46
	Plenty of notice before it is implemented were.	00:38:48
	You know, citizens, businesses have.	00:38:50
	The opportunity to.	00:38:52
	Start working on getting a credit.	00:38:55
	Up, you know, before we implement the fee.	00:38:57
	Then then starting at 100%.	00:39:00
	Should be fine.	00:39:02
	You know, unless we just.	00:39:04
	Shotgun this thing out. We might need to.	00:39:06
	Start slower and give people a chance to.	00:39:08
	Get their credits if there's anything they can do their properties to.	00:39:10
	Earned the credits in the manual.	00:39:13
	And what would be a reasonable? That's what I was going to ask.	00:39:17
	That's something we have to figure out. I mean, I.	00:39:20
	This is 1/4 long overdue. Or, you know, January 1. I mean, 'cause we're gonna actually, we're gonna have to.	00:39:22
	We're going to figure out this manual.	00:39:31
	Get somebody.	00:39:33
	Positioned ready to do it. We're going to have to prepare some.	00:39:34
	Marketing stuff to get information out to the public, have an opportunity for some of that and then.	00:39:38
	A little time for that actual.	00:39:43
	Application credit. You know application process.	00:39:46
	And it's going to be kind of overwhelming in year 1 because a lot of these fees are good for.	00:39:49
	These credits are good for five years.	00:39:54
	You know, so once they get it, they got it for five years until they reapply or it gets reaffirmed. But.	00:39:57
	So it's likely to be, you know.	00:40:03
	Pretty onerous in the first year implementing.	00:40:07
	And if we're gonna say January 1, so somebody put a date out there, that's gonna be the date to get started. You know, I think it	00:40:10
	would be.	00:40:13
	You know, fair to.	00:40:17
	That we should start.	00:40:19
	You know, having our marketing together, have the credit manual figured out and you know, start putting out there by October 1 to	00:40:20
	give a full 3 months of advertising and getting it out there to the public as best that we can so people are prepared, you know,	00:40:25
	businesses alike and you know they can start working on.	00:40:30
	Credits that they see it beneficial to them.	00:40:35
	I agree with that.	00:40:39
	Yeah, yeah.	00:40:40
	Yes, Sir.	00:40:42
	They want to mention one thing. Remember the?	00:40:44
	Database.	00:40:46
	Still needs to be updated.	00:40:48
	And that's why I will take a couple months.	00:40:49
	You know, that's a painstaking kind of process going through.	00:40:52
	Property by property.	00:40:56
	So.	00:40:57
	That is a.	00:40:58
	Won't even have that final.	00:41:01
	And a number for, I'm assuming a few months. Have you had any conversation with Mr.	00:41:03
	Mr. Horton would.	00:41:09
	GMC, that's one of those fixing.	00:41:11
	My understanding is that we still have a.	00:41:14
	Credit Wootton our credit, but we.	00:41:16
	With that original contract we still have.	00:41:19
	The ability to engage them.	00:41:22
	And us paid. We still have to pay for it.	00:41:25
	To get them in to help us get.	00:41:28
	Get everything lined up for sure.	00:41:29
	As far as getting the.	00:41:32
	The functioning and operation and validating this.	00:41:33
	Once we get the database, it has to be put into our billing system.	00:41:36
	Correct as well. So there's still that. Is there any automated?	00:41:41
	Process for getting that data from.	00:41:45
	One place to another.	00:41:50
	That's not.	00:41:52
	Something I'm Privy to.	00:41:54
	I believe that I believe.	00:41:58
	Our software has had the ability in the past to be able to take Excel.	00:42:02
	And information and move it over.	00:42:07
	There's usually a fee associated with that as well.	00:42:11
	So just F1?	00:42:14
	How many? About how many utility?	00:42:16
	Accounts are we talking about?	00:42:19
	You've got like 78 residential.	00:42:22
	7800 residential. So should we have the GIS?	00:42:26
	Information done is.	00:42:32
	Quickly as possible like set a baseline GIS.	00:42:34
	Data.	00:42:38
	Point and then allow.	00:42:41
	Plenty of time before January 1, like months.	00:42:43
	To get this.	00:42:48
	In Russia.	00:42:49
	Marsha.	00:42:51
	Can you come back please?	00:42:54
	Yes, or bring it over.	00:42:56
	Thank you, Bobby.	00:43:01
	May I gently suggest?	00:43:09
	That instead of.	00:43:12
	January the 1st.	00:43:14
	Since we've got to get all of these.	00:43:16
	Other things in place and.	00:43:19
	Conversion of data over to a fiscal year beginning of July the 1st.	00:43:21
	Would that be something that you all would like to?	00:43:30
	Consider.	00:43:34
	Maybe. I mean definitely consider.	00:43:35
	You know it's 'cause you know.	00:43:38
	One of the bigger parts of what makes this work, you know, and.	00:43:41
	You know, that's a discussion that you know.	00:43:44
	Also, Bobby, you don't have to have a hand into as far as like when we could be ready to.	00:43:46
	From what I'm understanding is y'all want to get this thing ready to rock'n'roll on January the 1st with bills going out and money	00:43:52
	coming in. Is that what I'm hearing?	00:43:56
	Potentially we just, I think that wasn't a hard day. That was just like a random date the mayor just threw out there. We said	00:44:00
	sure, there's a date because I mean.	00:44:04
	From now until the end of the year.	00:44:08
	We're kind of.	00:44:13
	Got a lot going on.	00:44:16
	But it would also give time from what I'm hearing from Bobby too.	00:44:18
	By moving that date for a fiscal year begin.	00:44:23
	That that might be.	00:44:27
	More feasible.	00:44:29
	Then if I last year.	00:44:30
	Then January the 1st.	00:44:33
	May I make a recommendation that we reach out to GMC?	00:44:36
	Have conversations with them on what it would take to develop the database and.	00:44:40
	That we need to accomplish what we need to.	00:44:45
	Have conversations with them and.	00:44:48
	Help get them to help us establish that timeline.	00:44:50
	With, with, I think in the back of our head if I can.	00:44:53
	He's looking at July 1 date.	00:44:58
	And the reason I'm saying that is because.	00:45:00
	Right. Right now.	00:45:02
	We've got.	00:45:04
	I've got audit going on. We've got.	00:45:07
	I got a couple.	00:45:11
	Improvement plan that is being.	00:45:14
	Developed as we speak, by the way.	00:45:15
	Will not be on the manager's report for that.	00:45:17
	This is just such an action pack.	00:45:21
	All the time. Well, I said I mean it. It's not too you get the folks in there that can help us. I think you know my, my.	00:45:24
	My personal feeling is, you know, we get started as soon as we get started. I mean, yeah, I understand now with.	00:45:30
	You know, needing to do the.	00:45:36
	Updating of uh.	00:45:38
	The database and you know.	00:45:39
	Having that.	00:45:41
	You know, numbers that we may not.	00:45:41
	Really be ready to go by, you know, January 1.	00:45:44
	But you know if.	00:45:47
	If it's March or if it's April 1 or whatever, I mean, I just think we need.	00:45:49
	If we're going to do it, we need to.	00:45:53
	We need to do it as soon as we can do it. Get on, start collecting money.	00:45:55
	Because next hurricane season will be here.	00:45:58
	You know next year and we want to really we know closer than we are right now if we don't get started so.	00:46:01
	I agree that you know, yeah, let's get with GMC, let's let's get a conversation going as to the timeline and.	00:46:07
	And you know.	00:46:13
	We can come back.	00:46:15
	Vote on something later.	00:46:16
	And could we get some info?	00:46:17
	What it might cost us to do a data import?	00:46:21
	From the GIS.	00:46:25
	And maybe we spend some money on that and give our.	00:46:26
	Staff some relief.	00:46:30
	Yes, yeah.	00:46:32
	Yeah. And based off that tasking, what do you think a reasonable time frame to get?	00:46:34
	That completed.	00:46:40
	Got it to me.	00:46:41
	Two weeks. Two weeks is.	00:46:43
	3 two weeks is.	00:46:47
	What do we have? What are you looking at?	00:46:48
	So you kill me, man, you kill me.	00:46:52
	So you know the other part of what we.	00:46:57
	We're talking about, I guess you know.	00:46:59
	Is the.	00:47:00
	There's a plan for, you know, and this will give us some time obviously to.	00:47:02
	Figure out exactly who's going to minister it.	00:47:07
	You know, make sure they're prepared to administer and, and we're staffed and we have the.	00:47:09
	Marketing plan in place, those kind of things that.	00:47:13
	The GMC is, you know, is on board and that's what's part of the original contract.	00:47:16
	Be able to go back and.	00:47:20
	Help get through that process and you know, we just need to initiate that process ASAP and.	00:47:22
	And move, move as we're able to.	00:47:28
	So do we want to ask for?	00:47:33
	Management's recommendation on where.	00:47:34
	The stormwater management.	00:47:38
	Person.	00:47:40
	Where that's where that person is going to be.	00:47:42
	There's there's actually recommendations in the.	00:47:46
	In that financial asset.	00:47:50
	Analysis.	00:47:53
	I'm sorry, I'm working out three hours sleep.	00:47:54
	That financial analysis has a breakdown of recommendation on how the structure should be set up.	00:47:57
	It doesn't identify necessarily people, but.	00:48:03
	Identifies positions.	00:48:06
	So that was in Public works. If I remember, I'd be happy to nominate somebody.	00:48:08
	Not calling any let us let us.	00:48:16
	We'll, we'll all of I've got a note there also to bring that back to you as well.	00:48:19
	OK.	00:48:25
	All right, anything more on this tonight?	00:48:29
	So can I recap real quick?	00:48:32
	Some of them Marks and orders.	00:48:35
	So we are looking at the $5.	00:48:36
	For you, you are you.	00:48:39
	We're going to get GMC on the.	00:48:42
	On the data points and the rollout and everything else and what we've got left with them, understand what we've got.	00:48:44
	Determine the ability to import both.	00:48:51
	GIS data and the other information end to end code to be able to do the billing and everything like that.	00:48:55
	And develop an.	00:49:01
	Administrative.	00:49:02
	Layout for.	00:49:04
	For Council, is that correct?	00:49:05
	Yes, Sir. Yes, yeah. Thank you. I'll stand.	00:49:07
	Anything more on this?	00:49:12
	All right. Thank you, Mr. Moore.	00:49:15

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Event transcript
	All right.	00:00:03
	I guess we down one, but we still have enough to start.	00:00:06
	I'm called to order the workshop session on the storm water management.	00:00:09
	And uh.	00:00:16
	I guess the.	00:00:21
	Main purpose of to.	00:00:22
	Of this particular discussion is uh.	00:00:24
	To see if we can't.	00:00:27
	Push this a little further down to.	00:00:29
	Implementation.	00:00:31
	Obviously one of the big cons.	00:00:33
	Issues still to be determined is the actual amount of the.	00:00:35
	And.	00:00:39
	We had some, we'll have some discussion a little bit about.	00:00:42
	Where we're going to start?	00:00:44
	Potentially in some of the.	00:00:46
	Pitfalls and areas and things that need to be addressed before we could actually implement.	00:00:48
	We said that was my kind of take on what we we should get accomplished here today.	00:00:54
	Mr. Horton, you want to start with anything or?	00:01:02
	Me just jump ball game boss.	00:01:05
	Our ball game.	00:01:07
	OK, so.	00:01:08
	As I said, everyone.	00:01:11
	One of the issues that I had.	00:01:13
	Been going around as.	00:01:15
	How this will affect?	00:01:17
	What they would call.	00:01:20
	Non single family residence uh structures and properties.	00:01:22
	And.	00:01:26
	I know that was one of the big concerns, I think from my understanding of.	00:01:29
	One just never got implemented.	00:01:32
	In the first place.	00:01:35
	And so.	00:01:37
	I've had numerous discussions back and forth with Mr. Blackerby.	00:01:40
	And uh.	00:01:44
	It is pretty apparent that, uh.	00:01:45
	This needs to be implemented just kind of across the board. Whatever it is, it is we start.	00:01:49
	Tampering with it.	00:01:54
	It legally takes on some.	00:01:56
	Potential.	00:01:59
	Opens up for liability for.	00:02:00
	For being sued about whether it's a tax or a fee or those those kinds of things if you try to.	00:02:02
	You know, do things that might offset for.	00:02:08
	For business versus residential or whatever?	00:02:10
	That's kind of where we are right this minute, so.	00:02:15
	You know, if anybody wanted to.	00:02:18
	Kind of speak on.	00:02:20
	What we're looking at, we have some revised projections that.	00:02:22
	That Mister Horton has provided us for.	00:02:26
	And of course this.	00:02:28
	2025 Figure of uh.	00:02:30
	$718,000.	00:02:32
	Potential total revenue would.	00:02:34
	Would certainly be less than that this first year, since we would be.	00:02:36
	Not implementing for.	00:02:40
	Probably at least another month or two so.	00:02:42
	Umm, you know that would be minimized the first year and.	00:02:44
	Does everybody have that policy?	00:02:49
	848.	00:02:53
	OK.	00:03:00
	So are we doing this?	00:03:03
	At the five hours.	00:03:05
	Her that's.	00:03:06
	That's the. That's the.	00:03:08
	This is the best part of the question here, I guess tonight. I mean, that's what this.	00:03:10
	But that's what this projection is based on.	00:03:14
	Umm, you know I had some data from.	00:03:17
	I inherited.	00:03:20
	I have study here. I guess that was done on a few properties.	00:03:22
	As to what that might mean, you know.	00:03:27
	Some commercial properties that have.	00:03:29
	Large parking lots and are pretty much.	00:03:33
	Close to 100%.	00:03:37
	Impervious.	00:03:38
	You know, could end kinda.	00:03:42
	You know, $634 storm water fee.	00:03:45
	Compared to at the time.	00:03:52
	This was done back in 21.	00:03:54
	$480 in taxes, so stormwater fee could actually end up being.	00:03:57
	Larger than you know, than somebody's actual.	00:04:03
	Taxes.	00:04:06
	At the top.	00:04:07
	Impervious surface.	00:04:13
	Commercial.	00:04:15
	No, this was just a.	00:04:16
	I think a survey a random survey of some properties.	00:04:18
	That Mayor? Morrissey had asked.	00:04:22
	To have these figured on.	00:04:24
	I'll pass it down. You can take a look at it, but.	00:04:26
	It's not necessarily.	00:04:29
	You know the top.	00:04:31
	Top ones or whatever. It was just kind of a random.	00:04:32
	Best I can tell like a.	00:04:34
	Just kind of a random sampling of some different properties and how it might.	00:04:36
	The impact being there.	00:04:42
	Based on their percentage of impervious surface and.	00:04:44
	Of course, one of the other.	00:04:48
	You know one of the other big components to this that.	00:04:50
	Is the credit manual implementation of the credit manual?	00:04:53
	And administration of those.	00:04:58
	Of that credit policy as far.	00:05:01
	Umm, you know who's who? Who is our individual that's going to be making those determinations.	00:05:04
	And uh.	00:05:11
	Where that person's coming from so.	00:05:11
	Thanks.	00:05:18
	And different this one I got it.	00:05:28
	Perhaps Mr. Maher, if you would.	00:05:59
	Are you, are you kind of prepared to talk to us about?	00:06:02
	Some of the critical first projects that.	00:06:05
	We might want to look at and what kind of number.	00:06:09
	That would be to give us a little basis for.	00:06:13
	What kind of fee we're looking at maybe and what we can do is?	00:06:17
	Those fees if we have them.	00:06:21
	Yes, Thank you, Mayor.	00:06:23
	I am.	00:06:26
	Yeah, I passed out.	00:06:28
	A little handout.	00:06:29
	Every podium.	00:06:31
	For everyone.	00:06:33
	And if you look at that list.	00:06:34
	Kind of looks like.	00:06:39
	Yes, this is taken from the city's storm water master plan and then the updated.	00:06:41
	Freeze nickel study for the water, sewer and storm water master plan.	00:06:49
	This is a comp.	00:06:53
	Compilation of those projects.	00:06:54
	The first page.	00:06:57
	Is all the priority.	00:06:58
	Projects that were rated from the Thomas and Hutton study from the storm Water utility.	00:07:02
	Task Force.	00:07:07
	And freezer nickels.	00:07:08
	To bank, so that's what if you look at the priority.	00:07:11
	This first page is a list of the priority ones.	00:07:14
	Well, we did a public works. We took it.	00:07:18
	And we put it.	00:07:20
	There was not a.	00:07:23
	Project order.	00:07:25
	Per se, in the master plan it.	00:07:26
	Of priority one.	00:07:28
	A priority two, priority three, or or long range.	00:07:30
	Kind of stuff so.	00:07:34
	So we took the priority one projects.	00:07:35
	And this is Iowa our.	00:07:38
	Public works.	00:07:41
	Prioritization.	00:07:44
	For instance, the Bartlett St. projects.	00:07:46
	Doesn't make sense to do the up.	00:07:49
	Stream before you do the downstream.	00:07:51
	So we just put them in that kind of.	00:07:54
	Kind of order and stuff.	00:07:55
	But these are all.	00:07:58
	Kind of the top rated projects.	00:08:01
	OK, so.	00:08:05
	Then we took these are.	00:08:06
	You will see some.	00:08:09
	Oh, and we also incorporated that.	00:08:11
	Study from Crooked River Plantation.	00:08:13
	That was presented to council.	00:08:15
	Couple months ago.	00:08:17
	We incorporated those.	00:08:18
	Into the room.	00:08:20
	What they had as priority one.	00:08:21
	Projects as well.	00:08:25
	But we don't have any.	00:08:27
	Costs associated with those yet because we haven't even.	00:08:28
	Got survey done.	00:08:31
	To be able to even.	00:08:33
	Start coming up with a solution.	00:08:35
	So. But if you take.	00:08:37
	The priority one.	00:08:39
	Projects.	00:08:42
	And these are based on 2019.	00:08:44
	Numbers. They haven't extrapolated out the current dollars, but 2019.	00:08:47
	Jesse's priority one.	00:08:53
	And not even including this bottom project which was listed.	00:08:55
	Which was on there as.	00:08:58
	That's now to now.	00:09:03
	That was playing from Colerain Oaks Trailer park.	00:09:05
	Down through an existing wetland.	00:09:08
	Building the canal through the wetlands.	00:09:11
	Down to the fire station.	00:09:14
	Coming in behind the fire station.	00:09:15
	I don't even think that's a formidable project.	00:09:17
	Anymore so.	00:09:21
	Not even counting that $2 million project.	00:09:22
	Back then.	00:09:25
	The rest of the projects.	00:09:26
	Not counting.	00:09:28
	Or.	00:09:30
	Roughly 1.4 million.	00:09:33
	And then if you look at the Crooked River.	00:09:35
	Probably in the neighborhood too.	00:09:37
	$2,000,000 for just the first page.	00:09:39
	And if we're looking 5 to 7?	00:09:43
	$100,000.	00:09:45
	A year and in revenues.	00:09:47
	Then that's just this first page could take.	00:09:50
	Four to five years.	00:09:54
	In current dollars.	00:09:56
	So. So anyway, we didn't go through and prioritize.	00:09:58
	All the twos and threes.	00:10:03
	Around the following pages because.	00:10:05
	By the time we get done with the first.	00:10:07
	That something could change anyway.	00:10:10
	So for example.	00:10:13
	Of the first project we got up here.	00:10:15
	$639,141.	00:10:17
	For Bartlett St. and Alexander St.	00:10:21
	Is that?	00:10:26
	What of that project? I guess I mean.	00:10:28
	I know probably the four by 9 double box culvert based on other discussion we had.	00:10:32
	We would probably.	00:10:36
	That would be the kind of thing we'd have to.	00:10:38
	Contract out because of.	00:10:40
	Correct cave in type in the.	00:10:42
	Balls, whatever those retaining walls are, that kind of stuff. But some of the segments of the piping and stuff would.	00:10:45
	Is there is there any in-house capability in this project or what we?	00:10:52
	There is and if you look at some of these costs.	00:10:57
	They're reflected there as well.	00:10:59
	When the skiff's cutting the road.	00:11:02
	Changing the pipe out, increasing the pipe size.	00:11:04
	Adding a second pipe, those kind of things.	00:11:07
	Yes.	00:11:10
	That's part of those that old ditch crew.	00:11:12
	Or.	00:11:15
	In-house staffing.	00:11:17
	You can do all right.	00:11:19
	$600,000 project, can that be broken down and just?	00:11:22
	Achievable segments because the first year we.	00:11:26
	Won't have that kind of money, but can we?	00:11:29
	Are we able to start on any of those or do we have to be able to fully?	00:11:32
	No, it doesn't have to be there's.	00:11:38
	Like these projects?	00:11:40
	Like on this particular one.	00:11:42
	You can see that there's 24 inch pipes and 36 inch pipe and the box culvert. There's other pieces that can get started.	00:11:44
	And.	00:11:51
	Storm water right away parks.	00:11:54
	Yes, ma'am.	00:11:58
	It doesn't have to be the total project.	00:11:59
	And and that's why the.	00:12:02
	All the notes.	00:12:05
	That's why you can see how it's broken down on those different things to let you know it's not a single.	00:12:06
	Single item.	00:12:12
	Talking that much is part of a larger project.	00:12:13
	This really addresses one of my concerns I wanted.	00:12:16
	I was hoping that we could restrict the use.	00:12:21
	The only capital improvement either infrastructure or equipment specific equipment.	00:12:28
	To achieve the drainage.	00:12:38
	Benefits and stormwater management benefits if you wanted to.	00:12:40
	And not allocate.	00:12:46
	Some costs such as personnel, that kind of thing.	00:12:47
	I think Mr. Moore's.	00:12:52
	Willing to make a recommendation if council will under here.	00:13:00
	Well, you just nailed it through.	00:13:08
	I would recommend that the money.	00:13:09
	This range from the fund.	00:13:11
	Exactly that we paid.	00:13:13
	For those capital projects.	00:13:15
	In.	00:13:18
	Contracted out when we need to.	00:13:19
	Kind of stuff. The engine.	00:13:21
	There will be some the engine.	00:13:23
	Required for.	00:13:25
	On equipment.	00:13:26
	There's some other equipment that would help us.	00:13:29
	Being able to.	00:13:32
	To clean up and maintain.	00:13:33
	Especially some of these real tight easements.	00:13:35
	Between homes.	00:13:38
	And stuff.	00:13:39
	Very narrow that we can't get our equipment into.	00:13:41
	Too tight. Plus it's wet kind of stuff.	00:13:45
	So that that would be.	00:13:48
	What I would say.	00:13:50
	Since we're already.	00:13:51
	Budgeted, uh.	00:13:53
	Or at least in the current year, we're already budgeted with staff.	00:13:54
	We already got budget for.	00:13:57
	Our existing equipment we've already got budgeted for.	00:13:59
	Our uniforms, all those operating costs.	00:14:03
	So I'd say let's build up that capital.	00:14:08
	Build up that.	00:14:11
	Find to be able to.	00:14:13
	To put.	00:14:15
	Directly towards projects.	00:14:16
	Right. So just to make sure we're on the same page, what you're saying is?	00:14:18
	In the perpetuity of this.	00:14:24
	We would never allocate.	00:14:27
	What I would consider to be sunk costs. In other words, we have a dedicated ditch.	00:14:29
	And then we have other. I mean, we also have.	00:14:36
	You know some implementation costs. For instance, I'm curious about mechanics of.	00:14:40
	Billing and collecting.	00:14:49
	Would be if that would be done with water bills.	00:14:51
	And that's.	00:14:56
	That's something that would have to address her.	00:14:58
	That's that's kind of the way it's laid out in the.	00:15:03
	In the plan.	00:15:06
	And to your point.	00:15:08
	Miss Kane, I also sent this to everyone.	00:15:10
	Which is the financial analysis?	00:15:14
	And the hybrid?	00:15:17
	Thinking, I guess, his wife.	00:15:19
	You're learning more.	00:15:20
	The.	00:15:23
	Thinking is more.	00:15:24
	What's recommended from what I gather out of the document?	00:15:25
	With meaning that.	00:15:30
	You've got.	00:15:32
	A big chunk coming out of general fund, but you also have the.	00:15:34
	Another chunk of money.	00:15:37
	Allocated for.	00:15:40
	The capital improvements and some of those other costs.	00:15:42
	That you're talking about.	00:15:45
	If that makes sense. That's it's recommended.	00:15:48
	Process, yeah.	00:15:51
	I would also recommend that the existing kind of operational costs that we have for normal.	00:15:53
	Covert repairs.	00:16:00
	Sinkhole repairs, those kind of Rd. things.	00:16:04
	Be left in the budget, away from.	00:16:06
	The storm or the utility?	00:16:08
	That's just my recommendation.	00:16:12
	I really agree with your recommendation because.	00:16:15
	That we don't get ourselves in a bar and.	00:16:18
	We can always move from.	00:16:21
	One project to the other without.	00:16:23
	Any necessary?	00:16:25
	Right, and real quick, before I forget, I also gave you.	00:16:28
	Map that looks like this.	00:16:31
	This is just kind of graphical depiction of where all the projects are located.	00:16:34
	So just to give you an idea.	00:16:38
	It's not a single area of the city.	00:16:40
	And throughout the whole city for the projects.	00:16:42
	That are identified.	00:16:45
	In this list.	00:16:47
	Are located.	00:16:48
	Well, I got you up here. Bobby, can I ask?	00:16:51
	I know after GMA and.	00:16:56
	Some discussion there.	00:16:58
	And are y'all at a point where you're?	00:17:00
	Make some recommendations about.	00:17:04
	Private culvert.	00:17:06
	Cleaning.	00:17:08
	And Mr. Riley out there sent us all a memo earlier today.	00:17:09
	With.	00:17:13
	A recommendation we might consider a.	00:17:16
	A revolving fund of sorts, that.	00:17:19
	You know where?	00:17:23
	Where if we have.	00:17:24
	A situation where.	00:17:26
	A private driveway is impacted or you know.	00:17:28
	You know, needs to be.	00:17:32
	Cut up, taken out, or whatever you know in order to.	00:17:33
	You know affect a repair that was is causing.	00:17:36
	Issues for everyone upstream because.	00:17:40
	It's not draining underneath somebody's driveway.	00:17:43
	That, uh.	00:17:45
	There might be a way to.	00:17:47
	You know, finance the cost of that at a lower cost for them.	00:17:49
	By having the city involved in the repair.	00:17:52
	And then them paying a, you know.	00:17:55
	I mean that be administrative ordinance thing we have to put in place but.	00:17:57
	You know, I like, I like the concept of it that.	00:18:02
	You know, we could go ahead and get the repair done.	00:18:06
	You know, and then.	00:18:08
	You know, because a lot of times it is a personal financial.	00:18:09
	You know, stumbling block that keeps people from.	00:18:13
	Fixing or cleaning out these culverts or, you know, making the repairs themselves or whatever.	00:18:16
	And we can find a way to make a little more cost effective for them to.	00:18:22
	To do that, it impacts.	00:18:25
	You know, everyone upstream from them.	00:18:27
	To get the kind of drainage that.	00:18:30
	You know that they're not going to get if that particular culvert is blocked or whatever, but.	00:18:31
	That was kind of but, you know.	00:18:36
	Have you all kind of evaluated more the augers, the water jets, the different kinds of things that we have, the jetting technology	00:18:38
	and the auger?	00:18:43
	Say it's 4344 thousand.	00:18:47
	For it.	00:18:50
	However.	00:18:53
	Well, I do.	00:18:55
	Think there should be some type of program?	00:18:56
	I don't think it should come.	00:18:59
	From the storm water utility funds.	00:19:01
	I think that needs to be set up as a totally separate.	00:19:03
	Item however.	00:19:09
	That structure.	00:19:11
	That way we don't take away because.	00:19:12
	Quite frankly, there are so many.	00:19:15
	Covert that you could easily eat up.	00:19:16
	Your whole revenue stream.	00:19:19
	A gift in those top.	00:19:21
	Replace culvert replacements and not be able to do the projects that are needed.	00:19:22
	Once again in my opinion.	00:19:28
	Have not had this question.	00:19:30
	Do you have any recommendation for alternate programs then?	00:19:32
	I mean, I thought Mr. Riley had a good idea, but what would be an example of an alternate program that doesn't take away from the	00:19:35
	stormwater utility?	00:19:38
	Funding. I'm talking strictly the funding.	00:19:42
	You know, let's say we set aside different funds from the stormwater utility.	00:19:45
	If we were to offer a program like Mr. Riley was suggesting for.	00:19:49
	Revolving loan fund.	00:19:53
	Just don't tie it to.	00:19:56
	The revenues for the storm water utility.	00:19:58
	Yeah, I mean, you know, potential.	00:20:03
	You know, fund equity situation or something that we could fund that.	00:20:07
	That program with, you know.	00:20:11
	Understanding that.	00:20:13
	Overtime, we're gonna.	00:20:14
	Should be getting paid back, you know you know by.	00:20:16
	Father's residence is on there.	00:20:20
	I mean.	00:20:29
	You know, yeah, I mean, I say, I think we've talked about that before that.	00:20:31
	But not necessarily financially. We haven't talked about that, but about.	00:20:36
	You know the cost to repair these things. I mean the need to repair could be critical.	00:20:40
	Cost of repair could be.	00:20:46
	Something that we as.	00:20:48
	You know, not to impinge on private business, but you know when we need to get it done and.	00:20:50
	And a homeowner can't afford to pay a private contractor. You know where where we stand there we stand at an impasse.	00:20:55
	And that's going to have.	00:21:01
	And so you know.	00:21:02
	Having a mechanism that allows us to.	00:21:04
	To go in and do this and at least offer.	00:21:06
	You know.	00:21:10
	Yeah.	00:21:11
	Yeah, with the attorney.	00:21:17
	Make sure that that's legal.	00:21:19
	But.	00:21:21
	You know, there would have to be some type of agreement where I guess that would be.	00:21:22
	An additional. I don't know if you can apply an additional.	00:21:25
	Loan repayment to the water bill utility bill with.	00:21:28
	I mean, I'm not aware of any private industry out there now that's going around offering.	00:21:31
	You know, culvert cleaning and whatever.	00:21:35
	You know, so we're not necessarily stepping on anybody's toes right now, you know, but.	00:21:38
	Right there is a model out.	00:21:43
	You know that we use whenever we did the Gaines Davis.	00:21:44
	Water and sewer.	00:21:47
	Installation.	00:21:50
	That there was capital recovery fees and stuff.	00:21:51
	The residents.	00:21:54
	Could pay it back overtime.	00:21:57
	Versus all at once.	00:21:58
	And just one of my concerns is, you know, just back to the.	00:22:03
	Impact of the.	00:22:07
	The fee itself, especially when it comes to the larger properties with the impervious services, you know, I know we have like say	00:22:08
	Walmart, that's obviously a big one.	00:22:12
	You know.	00:22:17
	They're a large company, I'm sure they won't like it, but.	00:22:18
	They could absorb it, but like, you know my.	00:22:20
	You know, while I'm concerned for everybody's, you know, tax collection increasing.	00:22:22
	You know, I wouldn't want it to be a deterrent.	00:22:27
	You know for the larger properties that we have pending rehab like the old bag plan, you know that's the company that's.	00:22:29
	You know, potentially coming in to fix that building up and then there.	00:22:34
	You know, have their financial model set up and then we hit them with a fee that could be larger than their property taxes. Like	00:22:37
	that's just one of the concerns that we really need to put some thought into and see if there's any way to possibly work it out.	00:22:42
	That's where that wouldn't be a deterrent.	00:22:48
	You know you like pig Metal Studio is a big new project as well that you know has funding and they're.	00:22:50
	You know, with their power issue, you know, they, they, they.	00:22:55
	You know, increasing their budget for this project that they have. So it just.	00:22:57
	I want to make sure we're not making something that's going to be.	00:23:02
	A deterrent for business in Saint Mary's as well.	00:23:04
	Right. And that that's where the credit manual?	00:23:07
	Kind of comes in.	00:23:09
	Doesn't solve the.	00:23:10
	Solve that total issue, but it gives options and these commercial entities are.	00:23:11
	Are better apartment to take advantage of those?	00:23:16
	I don't see in that credit manual.	00:23:19
	To reduce up to 50% total.	00:23:22
	Never can go below that 50%.	00:23:25
	Total credit, one of the things I was reading through the manual.	00:23:28
	Earlier.	00:23:32
	And uh.	00:23:32
	Some of the green initiatives and and low impact.	00:23:34
	Initiatives that are in there.	00:23:37
	Yeah, Councilwoman McCain and I were discussing earlier. She sent me some photos from.	00:23:39
	North Carolina somewhere.	00:23:45
	Tennessee.	00:23:47
	Pervious surface.	00:23:50
	Parking lots where they.	00:23:51
	Lay down these plastic grids of sort.	00:23:53
	And then fill it in with a.	00:23:55
	Crushed down and I guess they might have some sort of.	00:23:57
	Epoxy or something that helps hold it in place or whatever but it.	00:24:01
	You know it creates a.	00:24:03
	A parking area that's you know.	00:24:05
	The water can drain through and we have credits for those kinds of things in the manual and.	00:24:07
	Encourage those kinds of things because.	00:24:12
	The city is going to have its own fair share of.	00:24:14
	We're not a surface in the current parking lot if we don't find some mitigation things.	00:24:18
	Out there in the new City Hall. So, uh.	00:24:24
	You know, some things to definitely consider practices.	00:24:27
	Process you were talking about with the grid system with the.	00:24:31
	Stone and all the Hilton.	00:24:34
	Down in Orlando.	00:24:36
	Adjacent to the.	00:24:38
	Convention Center.	00:24:39
	They have that exact.	00:24:41
	A similar might not be exact one, but a similar type.	00:24:42
	Parking area.	00:24:45
	That looks like a grass.	00:24:46
	Kind of area, but it's.	00:24:49
	Impervious.	00:24:51
	Through a grid system.	00:24:52
	So yeah, what about the?	00:24:54
	Credit Manual. Administrative.	00:24:56
	Requirements.	00:24:59
	The credit manual references the stormwater management.	00:25:01
	Manager.	00:25:07
	Have a little more discussion, consensus about the money?	00:25:10
	And then we'll get into implementation administration.	00:25:14
	All right, so anybody else have any other feet?	00:25:18
	Concerns or questions about the fee amount of dollars I.	00:25:22
	You know, I think the $5 is good.	00:25:25
	I'm wondering for is.	00:25:30
	You pointed out on that list there are quite a few.	00:25:32
	Businesses that have a rather large impact.	00:25:36
	So and I know we have to do everything across the board.	00:25:40
	If we implement it.	00:25:45
	Do we want to give?	00:25:48
	Some sort of?	00:25:49
	Phase in.	00:25:52
	In other words, we implement it, but it begins on.	00:25:55
	Such and such a date in the future.	00:25:58
	And get some information out there to the.	00:26:01
	Community about how much it's gonna.	00:26:06
	What it's going to look like.	00:26:08
	For them.	00:26:10
	Absolutely, Yeah. I mean, I think.	00:26:11
	And they said it.	00:26:13
	You know, storm water.	00:26:15
	Committee said it, and you know the.	00:26:16
	Importance of.	00:26:18
	Public relations and education marketing of.	00:26:20
	Of this program.	00:26:22
	Going to be very integral to, you know, rolling it out. Everybody understands.	00:26:24
	What options are before them for the?	00:26:29
	'Cause you know even.	00:26:31
	Single family residences have some.	00:26:33
	Some some options.	00:26:36
	For, you know, mitigating their fee.	00:26:38
	Based on.	00:26:41
	You know some of the things within the credit manual so.	00:26:42
	And like I said, getting, getting ourselves set up and being prepared.	00:26:46
	For the influx of.	00:26:49
	Applications for credits and those kinds of things is going to be a big part to make sure we're ready.	00:26:51
	If we if we start this program, so it's not something we can.	00:26:58
	Decide the night and start next week. It's going to take a little time to.	00:27:02
	To get all the ducks in a row and decide you know exactly.	00:27:06
	You know the processes and procedures for.	00:27:09
	You know how all this is.	00:27:12
	Have to happen but.	00:27:14
	Umm, I don't, I'm not even opposed like you said to, you know, a phase in.	00:27:18
	Potentially of the fee, I mean it does slow this process down.	00:27:23
	You know, but if we started it.	00:27:27
	You know, 250 for the first year and then rolled out at $5.00 the second year or something, you know.	00:27:29
	I don't know if that makes that much.	00:27:35
	A difference to the businesses and that kind of stuff. They're just bigger impact. You know me.	00:27:37
	Typical single family residence, $5 per month.	00:27:42
	60 bucks a year so.	00:27:46
	30 or 60?	00:27:47
	Probably not.	00:27:49
	Major thing one way, the other for the.	00:27:50
	For a business that might make a difference, but for the businesses it can, it could make a pretty big difference to get.	00:27:52
	To get rolled out and prepared for in their budget.	00:27:58
	You know, umm.	00:28:01
	You know, especially starting midstream depending on where their fiscal years are and those kinds of things. So.	00:28:03
	Umm, you know, set setting a time to start in the in the.	00:28:08
	In the in the future, but also.	00:28:13
	A potential for a phase in you know it might be a reasonable.	00:28:16
	You know, accommodation to make.	00:28:20
	Would it create any?	00:28:24
	Difficulty in changing the rate, say from 2:50 to $5 on the building.	00:28:26
	Is that a pretty?	00:28:32
	Easy time today.	00:28:33
	That would be just a simple change of the system.	00:28:35
	It would be.	00:28:42
	So like a soft rollout that would?	00:28:49
	You know, get the.	00:28:52
	Fee structure just kind of started see what it does you know business to the businesses of the larger services.	00:28:53
	Like say we.	00:29:00
	Get this implemented before the end of the year and then by say July 1, when our new budget starts, then we.	00:29:01
	You know, prep for the.	00:29:07
	You know, normal normal rate or something.	00:29:08
	Something of that sort.	00:29:10
	Yeah, we could.	00:29:12
	Put some sort of calculator on the website where you can.	00:29:14
	Take the unit.	00:29:18
	And people can go in there and enter how many units they have and what the rate is and kind of get an idea, explain to them that	00:29:19
	includes parking.	00:29:24
	Not only.	00:29:28
	Roof but parking.	00:29:30
	Now we don't have a.	00:29:33
	For commercial?	00:29:35
	Right now.	00:29:36
	Residents can.	00:29:37
	Find out the.	00:29:39
	The amount of.	00:29:41
	Coverage on their particular property, do we I mean.	00:29:43
	I mean inside the.	00:29:46
	Analysis.	00:29:49
	I want to say it was in the analysis I read so much.	00:29:51
	Seems like there was a.	00:29:54
	All with all the different options that are available.	00:29:55
	Maybe taking that piece and building around that for.	00:29:59
	People can can calculate.	00:30:03
	Umm.	00:30:05
	Taking the original.	00:30:08
	Kind of doing it by GIS, right, I mean.	00:30:10
	You know, taking over an overview and.	00:30:12
	In the original database that GNC had prepared.	00:30:15
	For the rollout?	00:30:18
	This Initially they did a rough.	00:30:20
	Kind of magnitude or?	00:30:24
	Aerial photography. Just kind of.	00:30:28
	Making some assumptions on the commercial.	00:30:30
	Now whether they did that for every commercial property, I don't remember. They did.	00:30:33
	They didn't. It was just certain.	00:30:38
	Certain ones.	00:30:41
	But that would be.	00:30:44
	About the only.	00:30:45
	Kind of fall apart.	00:30:47
	To get is trying to look at an area when just trying to draw a box around so.	00:30:49
	To avoid.	00:30:54
	Confusion on measuring that.	00:30:55
	Would we?	00:30:58
	Use that for all commercial properties.	00:31:00
	Yeah. So then.	00:31:04
	Because there's a caveat in residential that you can also lower your.	00:31:07
	They are using residential.	00:31:10
	But it has to meet certain criteria.	00:31:13
	If you don't have that 3700 and.	00:31:17
	There's a gap in there, some below a certain percentage.	00:31:21
	Then you're you're able to come to, you've got to have a.	00:31:26
	Survey, look at your property and all this.	00:31:31
	I think there's a 2 acre property and you have less than 10%. That's one of the one of the things, but there's a number of other.	00:31:34
	There's several things that you can use but.	00:31:42
	That, but that would be used only the oil that is specified in the in the document.	00:31:45
	But that database would need to be updated.	00:31:52
	And this background.	00:31:55
	2019.	00:31:56
	There's a lot of property.	00:31:58
	That's it.	00:32:03
	I just wonder.	00:32:07
	We've got several members of Stormwater Committee out in the audience, if there's any.	00:32:09
	Any input based on kind of what we've been talking about?	00:32:13
	Come on up to this.	00:32:18
	Michael, if you don't mind Mr. Sale?	00:32:19
	Hello, Tommy Sailors.	00:32:24
	One of the recommendations you had on commercial property was to not.	00:32:27
	Charge them more than 50%.	00:32:32
	Of their.	00:32:35
	Tax. That was kind of 1.	00:32:37
	Way we could keep that fee down.	00:32:40
	On theirs, even if you're charging them.	00:32:42
	$3.	00:32:44
	Purse was a square foot.	00:32:47
	Hurt $3.	00:32:49
	For EU.	00:32:52
	And still look at, you know have a way to calculate.	00:32:54
	The way to be less than their tech?	00:32:56
	50% of the tax.	00:32:58
	Yeah.	00:33:01
	That was just.	00:33:03
	Well, no, but that's the way.	00:33:05
	Is not a tax, but it's a way to keep the fee down.	00:33:07
	You know some parameter you can put out there for that. Was that actually reviewed say by the city attorney like?	00:33:10
	That that would be, you know, like legal stars, the integrity of the fee and not be challenged well.	00:33:17
	I think we've got some information now from.	00:33:21
	I kind of explored a number of different options with Mr. BlackBerry as to ways to.	00:33:25
	Potentially limit.	00:33:30
	You know the impact on in.	00:33:32
	And pretty much.	00:33:34
	What he kept coming back to was.	00:33:37
	When imposed on a property, a tax must.	00:33:39
	Be based on property value but.	00:33:41
	For the fee.	00:33:46
	Anyway, going into this four page essay.	00:33:48
	Yeah, that, He responded.	00:33:51
	Pretty much the feedies remain applicable to all properties including tax, Infinity, church and other properties.	00:33:53
	You know any kind of?	00:34:00
	Staging like that, it takes it off of the actual.	00:34:03
	Impervious surface or that metric?	00:34:06
	You know, gonna get in trouble.	00:34:09
	Creates an option for liability. You know, because.	00:34:11
	You know it's no longer fee based on a specific.	00:34:15
	Condition of impervious surface or whatever.	00:34:18
	So yeah, I shot him four or five different options for things we might consider and that seemed to be.	00:34:22
	Not really an option for us.	00:34:30
	I just think at the time that we we talked about a $3 user fee.	00:34:33
	For.	00:34:37
	Commercial property, not 5.	00:34:38
	Else and you couldn't do 3 for commercial and.	00:34:39
	And buy for residential, right? You can't, yeah.	00:34:43
	Yeah, it has to be across the board based on what he was.	00:34:46
	Oh, yeah, All right.	00:34:49
	3 is what I was thinking until I saw these numbers and saw that the first project can't even.	00:34:54
	Really be covered?	00:34:58
	With first year's revenue, remember something when you look at the numbers now.	00:35:00
	All of the commercial.	00:35:04
	Numbers aren't there.	00:35:06
	OK, that is just a.	00:35:08
	A snapshot of the numbers that.	00:35:10
	On this list.	00:35:12
	Right, right. OK. Yeah, GMC provided this list and I want to say it was like.	00:35:14
	30 different businesses.	00:35:18
	And those, those are the numbers. That's reason you see it staying the same all across the board.	00:35:21
	But that was just to give you a snapshot of.	00:35:26
	Of seeing what would be.	00:35:29
	And this also these projections.	00:35:32
	Also do not include any potential credits.	00:35:34
	That people could apply for and receive.	00:35:37
	You know so.	00:35:40
	It's going to take a year or two to kind of figure out where we're actually going to end up on an annual basis with.	00:35:41
	With revenue.	00:35:47
	Yeah, that's all I had now. Thank you. So rather than.	00:35:49
	Because you're upping it like you implement it.	00:35:53
	And then you hit them again. If you update in years to come rather.	00:35:55
	Than just ripping the Band-Aid off. Wouldn't it just be better?	00:35:58
	I mean does it do it right off the RIP and then not have to keep going back and changing?	00:36:02
	And behalf of the stormwater committee, I really appreciate y'all taking this up and getting closer through. I only get an	00:36:09
	implementer because we're after.	00:36:12
	It's needed in the city.	00:36:16
	Then identify yourself, please. David Riley.	00:36:18
	Fensex to Greenwell Saint Mary's.	00:36:22
	OK, I didn't hear anybody else do what's trying to.	00:36:25
	But anyway, with respect.	00:36:29
	To the thieves.	00:36:31
	And we call our face, I mean there's other places have been that mistaken where we have a business fee.	00:36:33
	A fee for businesses and a fee for.	00:36:40
	Residential.	00:36:43
	And I think.	00:36:45
	From that standpoint, that may.	00:36:46
	Be a way to get by these high fees for businesses so.	00:36:48
	Just ask that you take a deeper look at that.	00:36:53
	And talk about it from that aspect because it's not making.	00:36:55
	People, it's really making it consistent.	00:37:02
	With what makes good sense for the city.	00:37:05
	When they implement this thing, and that's the thing that hung us up, I would say the most.	00:37:08
	During the development of this and when we presented it.	00:37:12
	The Council that in 2019, I think it was.	00:37:17
	About that so.	00:37:21
	Anyway, those are my comments and thanks for taking this up and getting on with what we didn't finish last council.	00:37:22
	Thank you. Thank you for your letter too.	00:37:29
	Yes, Sir.	00:37:33
	Yeah. I mean, like I said, I think, you know, we can certainly go back and ask that specifically with.	00:37:39
	With Mr. Black, one of the things he.	00:37:44
	Said the Georgia court supply four part test.	00:37:48
	Charge is more likely to be a tax if it is.	00:37:51
	If it raises general revenue based on the ability to pay.	00:37:54
	Is mandatory is unrelated to the payers contribution to the problem.	00:37:58
	Or burden on the government.	00:38:02
	And does not confer a special benefit on the payer.	00:38:04
	You know whether.	00:38:08
	That you know the kind of questions, I mean those those businesses.	00:38:09
	Certainly have as much.	00:38:13
	Impact as a As a.	00:38:15
	You know single family residence does you know whether or not.	00:38:18
	That can be done or not, but that would be a specific question for him. But.	00:38:21
	What?	00:38:27
	What's everybody kind of feel about what Jeremy said about?	00:38:29
	Ripping the Band-Aid and.	00:38:31
	Or staggering it in there.	00:38:33
	And I'm feeling which way we should be looking at.	00:38:35
	I say let's just go ahead and do it, yeah.	00:38:41
	Yeah, I would just say this.	00:38:44
	As long as we give.	00:38:46
	Plenty of notice before it is implemented were.	00:38:48
	You know, citizens, businesses have.	00:38:50
	The opportunity to.	00:38:52
	Start working on getting a credit.	00:38:55
	Up, you know, before we implement the fee.	00:38:57
	Then then starting at 100%.	00:39:00
	Should be fine.	00:39:02
	You know, unless we just.	00:39:04
	Shotgun this thing out. We might need to.	00:39:06
	Start slower and give people a chance to.	00:39:08
	Get their credits if there's anything they can do their properties to.	00:39:10
	Earned the credits in the manual.	00:39:13
	And what would be a reasonable? That's what I was going to ask.	00:39:17
	That's something we have to figure out. I mean, I.	00:39:20
	This is 1/4 long overdue. Or, you know, January 1. I mean, 'cause we're gonna actually, we're gonna have to.	00:39:22
	We're going to figure out this manual.	00:39:31
	Get somebody.	00:39:33
	Positioned ready to do it. We're going to have to prepare some.	00:39:34
	Marketing stuff to get information out to the public, have an opportunity for some of that and then.	00:39:38
	A little time for that actual.	00:39:43
	Application credit. You know application process.	00:39:46
	And it's going to be kind of overwhelming in year 1 because a lot of these fees are good for.	00:39:49
	These credits are good for five years.	00:39:54
	You know, so once they get it, they got it for five years until they reapply or it gets reaffirmed. But.	00:39:57
	So it's likely to be, you know.	00:40:03
	Pretty onerous in the first year implementing.	00:40:07
	And if we're gonna say January 1, so somebody put a date out there, that's gonna be the date to get started. You know, I think it	00:40:10
	would be.	00:40:13
	You know, fair to.	00:40:17
	That we should start.	00:40:19
	You know, having our marketing together, have the credit manual figured out and you know, start putting out there by October 1 to	00:40:20
	give a full 3 months of advertising and getting it out there to the public as best that we can so people are prepared, you know,	00:40:25
	businesses alike and you know they can start working on.	00:40:30
	Credits that they see it beneficial to them.	00:40:35
	I agree with that.	00:40:39
	Yeah, yeah.	00:40:40
	Yes, Sir.	00:40:42
	They want to mention one thing. Remember the?	00:40:44
	Database.	00:40:46
	Still needs to be updated.	00:40:48
	And that's why I will take a couple months.	00:40:49
	You know, that's a painstaking kind of process going through.	00:40:52
	Property by property.	00:40:56
	So.	00:40:57
	That is a.	00:40:58
	Won't even have that final.	00:41:01
	And a number for, I'm assuming a few months. Have you had any conversation with Mr.	00:41:03
	Mr. Horton would.	00:41:09
	GMC, that's one of those fixing.	00:41:11
	My understanding is that we still have a.	00:41:14
	Credit Wootton our credit, but we.	00:41:16
	With that original contract we still have.	00:41:19
	The ability to engage them.	00:41:22
	And us paid. We still have to pay for it.	00:41:25
	To get them in to help us get.	00:41:28
	Get everything lined up for sure.	00:41:29
	As far as getting the.	00:41:32
	The functioning and operation and validating this.	00:41:33
	Once we get the database, it has to be put into our billing system.	00:41:36
	Correct as well. So there's still that. Is there any automated?	00:41:41
	Process for getting that data from.	00:41:45
	One place to another.	00:41:50
	That's not.	00:41:52
	Something I'm Privy to.	00:41:54
	I believe that I believe.	00:41:58
	Our software has had the ability in the past to be able to take Excel.	00:42:02
	And information and move it over.	00:42:07
	There's usually a fee associated with that as well.	00:42:11
	So just F1?	00:42:14
	How many? About how many utility?	00:42:16
	Accounts are we talking about?	00:42:19
	You've got like 78 residential.	00:42:22
	7800 residential. So should we have the GIS?	00:42:26
	Information done is.	00:42:32
	Quickly as possible like set a baseline GIS.	00:42:34
	Data.	00:42:38
	Point and then allow.	00:42:41
	Plenty of time before January 1, like months.	00:42:43
	To get this.	00:42:48
	In Russia.	00:42:49
	Marsha.	00:42:51
	Can you come back please?	00:42:54
	Yes, or bring it over.	00:42:56
	Thank you, Bobby.	00:43:01
	May I gently suggest?	00:43:09
	That instead of.	00:43:12
	January the 1st.	00:43:14
	Since we've got to get all of these.	00:43:16
	Other things in place and.	00:43:19
	Conversion of data over to a fiscal year beginning of July the 1st.	00:43:21
	Would that be something that you all would like to?	00:43:30
	Consider.	00:43:34
	Maybe. I mean definitely consider.	00:43:35
	You know it's 'cause you know.	00:43:38
	One of the bigger parts of what makes this work, you know, and.	00:43:41
	You know, that's a discussion that you know.	00:43:44
	Also, Bobby, you don't have to have a hand into as far as like when we could be ready to.	00:43:46
	From what I'm understanding is y'all want to get this thing ready to rock'n'roll on January the 1st with bills going out and money	00:43:52
	coming in. Is that what I'm hearing?	00:43:56
	Potentially we just, I think that wasn't a hard day. That was just like a random date the mayor just threw out there. We said	00:44:00
	sure, there's a date because I mean.	00:44:04
	From now until the end of the year.	00:44:08
	We're kind of.	00:44:13
	Got a lot going on.	00:44:16
	But it would also give time from what I'm hearing from Bobby too.	00:44:18
	By moving that date for a fiscal year begin.	00:44:23
	That that might be.	00:44:27
	More feasible.	00:44:29
	Then if I last year.	00:44:30
	Then January the 1st.	00:44:33
	May I make a recommendation that we reach out to GMC?	00:44:36
	Have conversations with them on what it would take to develop the database and.	00:44:40
	That we need to accomplish what we need to.	00:44:45
	Have conversations with them and.	00:44:48
	Help get them to help us establish that timeline.	00:44:50
	With, with, I think in the back of our head if I can.	00:44:53
	He's looking at July 1 date.	00:44:58
	And the reason I'm saying that is because.	00:45:00
	Right. Right now.	00:45:02
	We've got.	00:45:04
	I've got audit going on. We've got.	00:45:07
	I got a couple.	00:45:11
	Improvement plan that is being.	00:45:14
	Developed as we speak, by the way.	00:45:15
	Will not be on the manager's report for that.	00:45:17
	This is just such an action pack.	00:45:21
	All the time. Well, I said I mean it. It's not too you get the folks in there that can help us. I think you know my, my.	00:45:24
	My personal feeling is, you know, we get started as soon as we get started. I mean, yeah, I understand now with.	00:45:30
	You know, needing to do the.	00:45:36
	Updating of uh.	00:45:38
	The database and you know.	00:45:39
	Having that.	00:45:41
	You know, numbers that we may not.	00:45:41
	Really be ready to go by, you know, January 1.	00:45:44
	But you know if.	00:45:47
	If it's March or if it's April 1 or whatever, I mean, I just think we need.	00:45:49
	If we're going to do it, we need to.	00:45:53
	We need to do it as soon as we can do it. Get on, start collecting money.	00:45:55
	Because next hurricane season will be here.	00:45:58
	You know next year and we want to really we know closer than we are right now if we don't get started so.	00:46:01
	I agree that you know, yeah, let's get with GMC, let's let's get a conversation going as to the timeline and.	00:46:07
	And you know.	00:46:13
	We can come back.	00:46:15
	Vote on something later.	00:46:16
	And could we get some info?	00:46:17
	What it might cost us to do a data import?	00:46:21
	From the GIS.	00:46:25
	And maybe we spend some money on that and give our.	00:46:26
	Staff some relief.	00:46:30
	Yes, yeah.	00:46:32
	Yeah. And based off that tasking, what do you think a reasonable time frame to get?	00:46:34
	That completed.	00:46:40
	Got it to me.	00:46:41
	Two weeks. Two weeks is.	00:46:43
	3 two weeks is.	00:46:47
	What do we have? What are you looking at?	00:46:48
	So you kill me, man, you kill me.	00:46:52
	So you know the other part of what we.	00:46:57
	We're talking about, I guess you know.	00:46:59
	Is the.	00:47:00
	There's a plan for, you know, and this will give us some time obviously to.	00:47:02
	Figure out exactly who's going to minister it.	00:47:07
	You know, make sure they're prepared to administer and, and we're staffed and we have the.	00:47:09
	Marketing plan in place, those kind of things that.	00:47:13
	The GMC is, you know, is on board and that's what's part of the original contract.	00:47:16
	Be able to go back and.	00:47:20
	Help get through that process and you know, we just need to initiate that process ASAP and.	00:47:22
	And move, move as we're able to.	00:47:28
	So do we want to ask for?	00:47:33
	Management's recommendation on where.	00:47:34
	The stormwater management.	00:47:38
	Person.	00:47:40
	Where that's where that person is going to be.	00:47:42
	There's there's actually recommendations in the.	00:47:46
	In that financial asset.	00:47:50
	Analysis.	00:47:53
	I'm sorry, I'm working out three hours sleep.	00:47:54
	That financial analysis has a breakdown of recommendation on how the structure should be set up.	00:47:57
	It doesn't identify necessarily people, but.	00:48:03
	Identifies positions.	00:48:06
	So that was in Public works. If I remember, I'd be happy to nominate somebody.	00:48:08
	Not calling any let us let us.	00:48:16
	We'll, we'll all of I've got a note there also to bring that back to you as well.	00:48:19
	OK.	00:48:25
	All right, anything more on this tonight?	00:48:29
	So can I recap real quick?	00:48:32
	Some of them Marks and orders.	00:48:35
	So we are looking at the $5.	00:48:36
	For you, you are you.	00:48:39
	We're going to get GMC on the.	00:48:42
	On the data points and the rollout and everything else and what we've got left with them, understand what we've got.	00:48:44
	Determine the ability to import both.	00:48:51
	GIS data and the other information end to end code to be able to do the billing and everything like that.	00:48:55
	And develop an.	00:49:01
	Administrative.	00:49:02
	Layout for.	00:49:04
	For Council, is that correct?	00:49:05
	Yes, Sir. Yes, yeah. Thank you. I'll stand.	00:49:07
	Anything more on this?	00:49:12
	All right. Thank you, Mr. Moore.	00:49:15