Transcript

Event transcript
Covered a few things with you all today. 00:00:41
And what we're about to walk through is really. 00:00:46
The hard work of our senior planner, Planner Christina Rini. 00:00:49
And I think. 00:00:54
In our conversations about. 00:00:55
Parking. What we arrived at is really thinking about how. 00:00:58
The in the city's ordinances. 00:01:04
Is this working? 00:01:07
I don't. 00:01:10
It's giving me the. 00:01:13
The drain light. 00:01:14
It might be. 00:01:17
Might be OK. 00:01:18
Project yeah, projecting to the to those streaming at home. 00:01:21
Anyways, I think. 00:01:25
It turned on us that. 00:01:26
There might be. 00:01:29
A more elegant approach. 00:01:30
To how we. 00:01:33
Develop in general. 00:01:34
And that it's not uncommon. 00:01:36
For municipalities. 00:01:39
To have a land development ordinance. 00:01:41
Right. And and in that ordinance would be things like? 00:01:45
Parking. 00:01:50
Landscaping and vegetation. 00:01:51
Site plans, a lot of the things that we're trying to work on. 00:01:54
Now and either. 00:01:58
Insert or cobble together in our. 00:01:59
Existing ordinances we might be able to kind of. 00:02:03
I think a little bit more elegantly tie it together than doing. 00:02:07
Ordinance revision after ordinance revision. 00:02:11
So hey, Mr. Seals. 00:02:13
So that that's. 00:02:15
Kind of what what spurred this our initial discussion? 00:02:17
Was yes around parking? 00:02:21
But we wanted to. 00:02:24
Think a little bit about. That's interesting. 00:02:26
It didn't advance on my screen, but it advanced up there. 00:02:29
OK, um. 00:02:33
So. 00:02:35
This I think if you all can see this. 00:02:36
These would be the types of things or elements that are included. 00:02:39
In a land development ordinance. 00:02:43
So I'll just give you a moment. 00:02:46
Look at those. 00:02:48
And Dina will go into more detail and I think that. 00:02:51
For you, it's important to keep in mind that. 00:02:56
You don't always see. 00:03:00
Every. 00:03:02
Development. 00:03:03
So as commissioners, you see. 00:03:04
Major and minor subdivisions. 00:03:07
You see special use permits. 00:03:09
You see variances. 00:03:12
But. 00:03:14
For example. 00:03:14
Permitted use in our commercial zoning. 00:03:16
Let's say a hotel. 00:03:19
Would like to cite. 00:03:20
On Osborne in C2 zoning. 00:03:22
You wouldn't see that. 00:03:24
That would only come before. 00:03:26
The sort of internal. 00:03:29
Development team. 00:03:31
So that's whatever you hear us say. We do things administratively. 00:03:33
That's what we're talking about. 00:03:37
So I know that in the past, especially when I first started. 00:03:39
There was concern about. 00:03:44
Landscaping, lighting, site design, you know. 00:03:45
Even down to architectural materials and so. 00:03:49
We did a great job at overhauling our. 00:03:52
Commercial zoning to try to. 00:03:56
If you remember, that was on the heels of the Shadow Lawn Dollar General. 00:03:58
And we were trying to. 00:04:02
Make that. 00:04:04
A little bit more palatable. 00:04:05
And so we've we've done some good work in the C2. 00:04:07
But it's very. 00:04:10
I think staff would tell you that. 00:04:12
When we're reviewing things, it's. 00:04:14
Cobbled together where? 00:04:17
We're pulling from the vegetation ordinance, We're pulling from the C2 we're pulling from. 00:04:18
You know what will soon be a site plan ordinance. 00:04:24
So we're. 00:04:27
Sort of cobbling it together and so in thinking about the parking plan. 00:04:28
We decided to try to move towards. 00:04:33
Something that would be more. 00:04:36
All-encompassing, no matter really. 00:04:38
What type of application and what? 00:04:41
Would this be for? 00:04:44
Housing as well as commercial or all? 00:04:45
Across the board or? 00:04:48
Our subdivision ordinance would be included in this. 00:04:49
Oh, it would be OK. OK, so you would incorporate it? 00:04:52
Yeah, it's zoning. Things like that would not be. 00:04:56
OK. And I assume part of the benefit of this. 00:04:59
Is that it? Kind of? 00:05:03
Puts things in one place. 00:05:04
So also from a developer's perspective. 00:05:06
Trying to hunt down these things would be simpler. 00:05:09
Exactly. That's exactly what I was going to say, and that's one of the reasons why. 00:05:12
Jamie and I were talking about looking at this. 00:05:16
Is because. 00:05:20
Everything's in one place now. 00:05:21
They can go through it. They've got their vegetation ordinance, their lighting ordinance, their parking ordinance. 00:05:23
Guide development guideline ordinances, streets. 00:05:30
Sidewalks, everything's in one place. 00:05:33
So does that mean that? 00:05:36
For some of these topics. 00:05:38
There would be. 00:05:41
In this a section under whatever topic we were talking about that that would say OK. 00:05:43
If you're an R1. 00:05:49
Here are the rules that will apply. 00:05:50
Or is the idea that they would be the same? 00:05:52
Requirement across the board. 00:05:55
It would be the same requirement because these would apply to items in all subdivisions. 00:05:57
Sidewalks are in all subdivisions. 00:06:04
All commercial properties. 00:06:06
Parking lot standards would be in all commercial non residential properties. So all of these standards now when it came to 00:06:09
setbacks. 00:06:12
Uses green space. 00:06:17
For like the PD. 00:06:19
That would just be in the zoning category. 00:06:22
And then one of the things I pondered about and. 00:06:25
That I think the parking has made it difficult, but maybe. 00:06:29
That applies to some of these other things is that. 00:06:32
At the point, oftentimes we're reviewing something in a. 00:06:35
Proving it. And we've asked them. 00:06:39
You know, like on parking. I was asking, so how many bedroom units are these? 00:06:41
To be able to try to figure out what's adequate. 00:06:46
And there. 00:06:49
Essentially saying we're not at that. 00:06:50
Point at this point so. 00:06:51
Would these standards then? 00:06:53
Apply and then whatever your end. 00:06:56
Version was. 00:06:59
You've been. 00:07:01
Told up front. 00:07:02
That has to meet these standards so you know if you've got. 00:07:04
3 bedroom units versus one bedroom units you've already been alerted to. 00:07:07
What the applicable standard would be? 00:07:12
And that would all be contained inside the parking ordinance. OK, Yeah. 00:07:14
I think that one of the things that we. 00:07:17
So. 00:07:22
But I. 00:07:25
One of the. 00:07:29
Ideas that we started from is our zoning ordinance is currently where our parking standards. 00:07:31
So we can. 00:07:39
Look at these a few different ways right? Like. 00:07:40
In our current. 00:07:43
Number of required parking spaces. 00:07:45
Chart, you know. 00:07:49
If a residential development has two or more bedrooms, it's 2. 00:07:50
Per unit. 00:07:55
So you know if we if we have learned a few things in our subdivisions. 00:07:56
You know. 00:08:02
Perhaps that's not enough. 00:08:03
Parking right with the advent of, you know, a more golf. 00:08:05
Carnival community I know that in many developments the golf cart garage is. 00:08:10
Something that excites people, right? So. 00:08:16
It's kind of like we can tweak it in a few different ways. 00:08:19
We can look at. 00:08:23
Sure, yeah. 00:08:26
Hi, welcome. 00:08:29
Nothing. OK. 00:08:32
So a little bit about parking standards. 00:08:38
So we were trying to think of ways that you could. 00:08:41
Increase the space where people park. 00:08:44
I mean, there's a lot of different. 00:08:48
Tools that we could use. 00:08:49
Particularly in our. 00:08:52
I think the way that. 00:08:55
Major residential. 00:08:57
Subdivisions are going. 00:08:59
Is there not going to do? 00:09:01
They're not going to come forward with straight zones. 00:09:03
Which is the 75 foot lots the way that we've organized the new subdivision ordinance. 00:09:06
They're going to either come forward with a planned development district which has a mix of uses. 00:09:11
Or they're gonna come forward with. 00:09:16
Residential density bonus application. 00:09:18
And in those two you can think about those things as asks. 00:09:21
And in those two asks. 00:09:24
Then there's space for us. 00:09:26
To discuss similarly. 00:09:28
To what we did with the. 00:09:29
Ryan Holmes, Conceptual class. 00:09:31
We talked about. 00:09:34
Wider streets we talked about. 00:09:36
Additional parking, you know, and so you can. 00:09:38
In that discussion you can try. 00:09:40
To find ways. 00:09:43
And it might even be in the set back. 00:09:44
I mean, you know, it might be that we change some of the model, right? Instead of a. 00:09:47
20 foot or 25 foot set back. 00:09:51
We have a deeper set back, which means a longer driveway, which means more cars in the trail. 00:09:54
Yeah, so and then you know. 00:09:59
Was snooping around looking at other ideas. 00:10:01
Talk about these. 00:10:04
One is to require the apron on the side of the driveway. 00:10:05
And you can do that through different papers or just through the. 00:10:10
Concrete. The pavers would give you the aesthetic look. 00:10:14
But that could be used for additional parking. 00:10:18
Would that be are those pavers? Have you looked at the permeable pavers? 00:10:21
Yes, I have looked at the yeah, that would be a bonus. That would, that would be a bonus with the new storm water fees, yeah. 00:10:26
That would reduce the runoff, but that's one option. Another option. 00:10:34
Such as with the Ryan homes where they made the streets wider. 00:10:39
Is doing bump outs at the corners. 00:10:42
Since the streets are watered, you're going to have some people speeding through the subdivision going around someone that's not 00:10:45
going as fast as they are or they would like them to. The bump outs would. 00:10:50
Completely eliminate driving around. 00:10:56
Where they drive them down the parking spaces? Yes, yes. 00:11:00
So at the end of the day, it's setting a standard for. 00:11:04
How much parking and then you've got. 00:11:08
Some things you've identified as ways you can. 00:11:11
Needs that, but I I think where we. 00:11:14
Got to this aware I. 00:11:17
Got to the. 00:11:19
Feeling that we. 00:11:20
We have a lot of these where. 00:11:21
You know there's. 00:11:25
There's barely enough parking on site. 00:11:26
Depending on the occupancy in the unit and then. 00:11:30
Any visitors? 00:11:34
Sort of thing. And we had a lot of these communities where they. 00:11:37
Said you know. 00:11:40
If there's any street parking. 00:11:41
That's the problem and. 00:11:43
In their parking, even when there's not an accommodation for that so. 00:11:45
And it particularly to me, came up when we had. 00:11:49
Townhouses. 00:11:52
Where they oftentimes had single car garages so they had. 00:11:53
Only a single width driveway. 00:11:57
And then we've got these shorter. 00:11:59
Setbacks when we keep talking about well. 00:12:01
If you've got a big truck sitting there. 00:12:03
Does it even clear the sidewalks sort of things I. 00:12:06
I think we've been kind of. 00:12:09
Moving towards, you know, maybe our standards. 00:12:11
Aren't adequate and we've had some discussions in some of these where. 00:12:16
A multifamily. 00:12:21
Were then like they did some alternative like. 00:12:23
Guest parking. 00:12:26
There wasn't directly in front of the unit, but that seemed. 00:12:28
Like a solution. So it seems like we've. 00:12:31
If we can. 00:12:33
Come up with an appropriate standard. 00:12:34
And then what's an acceptable way to meet that? 00:12:36
It would be helpful. 00:12:40
And we can do that through the minimum parking space. 00:12:41
One of the. 00:12:45
Ordinances that I. 00:12:47
Reviewed. 00:12:48
And took a lot of examples and put them into. 00:12:49
The ordinance that I presented to you. 00:12:53
Is Camden County and they have single family residence. Is A2 dwelling unit. 00:12:55
There's a 2 per dwelling unit. 00:13:00
But you can look at doing it from bedrooms. 00:13:02
If it has four bedrooms, you might want to up that to three parking spaces. 3 bedrooms, 2 parking spaces, 5 bedrooms, 4 parking 00:13:05
spaces. 00:13:09
So it would go where they are. 00:13:15
Where are you? 00:13:18
Go ahead. 00:13:21
One one thing that's happened. 00:13:24
In today's climate. 00:13:27
If you got a four bedroom. 00:13:29
House or three bedroom house? 00:13:32
What requires 2 parking spaces? 00:13:35
But if you gotta. 00:13:39
3 bedroom house you probably got. 00:13:41
A bowl of father and two children. 00:13:43
Two children are driving. 00:13:45
Have to move cars that's. 00:13:47
But I wouldn't eat it. 00:13:50
And so. 00:13:52
We now launched the bills to get now. 00:13:53
They can't park on the side, the only place they can park. 00:13:58
In the front yard. 00:14:04
Or on the street. 00:14:05
And nobody wants to put. 00:14:07
Park in the front yard. 00:14:09
'Cause it doesn't look good. 00:14:11
So we need to make. 00:14:12
And that's one thing wrong with it. 00:14:15
Several 20. 00:14:18
Foot front yard. 00:14:19
The big drunk won't fit that. 00:14:22
We also don't have an occupancy standard. 00:14:24
So that four bedroom could be. 00:14:27
Occupied by. 00:14:30
Like 4 folks who are sharing. 00:14:31
Who you know four or six or more. 00:14:34
I think I sent a photo at one point. 00:14:38
There's where I walk every day. There are townhouses. 00:14:41
And. 00:14:46
The one townhouse always has. 00:14:47
Five vehicles and so 2 are in the driveway. 00:14:48
Because nothing is in the garage. Because I'm sure it's storage. 00:14:52
Two were in the front lawn. 00:14:55
And then oftentimes they have two people setting. 00:14:56
With cars parked in the set back across the street. 00:14:59
Because it happens to be a vacant. 00:15:04
And then you've got. 00:15:06
4 units. 00:15:07
That all have that same sort of issue and it seems like. 00:15:09
Going forward, we're sort of building. 00:15:13
What we're going to end up with in the future, that if we can. 00:15:15
Tweak this. 00:15:20
Parking requirements you could do. I'm sorry. 00:15:22
Multifamily. 00:15:24
And then or townhome developments where they would have to have a guest parking lot. 00:15:26
Yeah, yeah. And I think that. 00:15:31
One of the other things that we could do is we could go back through the building department data. 00:15:33
And we could pull. 00:15:38
What we're actually building because in my mind. 00:15:39
One of the most rapidly building out development. 00:15:43
Is Hayden Point? 00:15:46
That you know, you've seen now phases. 00:15:48
1-2 and three come before you. 00:15:50
And Hayden Point is building 4 and five bedroom. 00:15:52
That's what they're bringing to money. 00:15:56
So I think. 00:15:58
You know, if we look at some of that data. 00:15:59
That we could actually give good data through the building department and single family residential permits. 00:16:01
We could say that for our commun. 00:16:07
This is the type of. 00:16:10
Yeah, building that we're seeing. So when? 00:16:11
We list something like, you know, a residential. 00:16:14
Parking requirement for two or more bedrooms. 00:16:17
We're now at 4 spaces rather than two spaces. 00:16:20
I think Matt had a. 00:16:25
OK, I also remember what it was. 00:16:27
Alright, thank you. 00:16:31
And one of the issues that I don't know that I have this in order but. 00:16:32
It seems like we have to balance. 00:16:37
If we got a. 00:16:39
Four and five bedroom. 00:16:40
Project. 00:16:42
We've either got to create. 00:16:43
Or require. 00:16:45
Sufficient. 00:16:47
Parking in a driveway, either through an. 00:16:48
A higher sprung set back. 00:16:51
So not go out and encroach upon the sidewalk or. 00:16:54
In the alternative. 00:16:57
Require that development to have a. 00:16:59
Wider St. 00:17:01
OK, in order to. 00:17:04
Accommodate whatever minimum distance is required for street parking. 00:17:05
One of the others got to happen. 00:17:10
And I will agree. 00:17:13
This concept of. 00:17:15
Having. 00:17:18
Excess parking in an area that's not convenient to the dwelling. 00:17:20
Typically just doesn't work. Nobody know. 00:17:25
Park 100 yards down the street and walk themselves up and back from. 00:17:27
Whoever you're visiting. 00:17:31
You're going to pull up in the yard, they're going to pull up on the curb, they're going to pull up. 00:17:33
Sidewalk. 00:17:37
And it's just, and that's all the kind of things that we don't like to say. 00:17:38
And I know it's late making that comment. 00:17:42
I guess in the. 00:17:46
Work we've done, but I think you've got to have one or the other. 00:17:47
I don't think it's. 00:17:51
Pretty much as a in a in a 2 bedroom. 00:17:52
Dwelling, you know, I'm saying I think I do. 00:17:57
We can deal with it. 00:18:00
But this evening, one or the other, either a quieter. 00:18:01
St. requirement that allow. 00:18:04
Enough room for cars to pass with street parking. 00:18:06
Or more parking. 00:18:10
Capacity on the site itself. 00:18:14
Increased set back or. 00:18:17
Water driveway or something? 00:18:19
Okay. 00:18:21
Do we have the the authority or the? 00:18:23
Potential authority. 00:18:26
To dictate a covenant. 00:18:29
For a community. 00:18:30
A forest built. 00:18:31
In other words, I'll give you an example where I'm coming from. 00:18:34
My son just moved to the community well north of Atlanta. 00:18:38
That's got the strictest parking covenants I've ever seen. 00:18:41
He is A2 car garage. 00:18:45
And in order to put. 00:18:48
Car in the driveway. 00:18:49
He has to show that there are two cars in the garage. 00:18:51
Before anyone. 00:18:55
Including his family. 00:18:56
You can park in the driveway. 00:18:57
So in his case, he's got. 00:18:59
Three, sometimes 4 cars. 00:19:01
But the only time they can park in a driveway is both he and his wife's cars are in the garage. 00:19:03
But that's done through the covenant rather than the city. 00:19:08
Yeah, I wonder if there's any way to. 00:19:11
Enforce a covenant. 00:19:14
Hayden Point might be an example. It's too late there. 00:19:17
But new ones coming in. 00:19:19
Or is that beyond our? 00:19:21
Realm of authority. 00:19:23
Well, I don't think we can afford enforce the government. We can require them to put them in. 00:19:25
And and they put him in. 00:19:33
But it's up to the hormones. 00:19:35
And some whole associations won't do it. Well, that would be up to them to do it, yeah. 00:19:38
But. 00:19:43
So yeah. 00:19:45
Yeah, I would. 00:19:49
Rather, approach it through design. 00:19:51
Well, here's an alternative thought on that so. 00:19:52
I'd assume. 00:19:55
At least what I've seen in the past in other places is that when there's a garage, that's counted. 00:19:56
As part of your provision of parking. 00:20:02
But the reality that we see for the most part is that garages are used. 00:20:04
Here for storage. 00:20:09
That's what this was. That's where this so. 00:20:11
I mean the enforcement. 00:20:14
On, you know, trying to make people use their. 00:20:17
Garages I. 00:20:19
Even if you could. 00:20:21
Put that in place the. 00:20:22
The nightmare it would create for the city on that I think wouldn't accomplish anything but. 00:20:25
If the reality is that the. 00:20:31
Garage. 00:20:33
Isn't actually being. 00:20:34
Utilized. 00:20:36
Then if we either don't include the garage as part of counting towards. 00:20:37
The required parking. 00:20:42
Or we raise. 00:20:43
The uh. 00:20:45
Limits or the minimum standards enough. 00:20:46
To say that you know, even without. 00:20:50
The garage. We've got some overflow. 00:20:52
That's that's handled there. We would accomplish the same. 00:20:55
Thing essentially. 00:20:58
And it would be enforceable by design. 00:21:00
As opposed to use. 00:21:03
Down the road. 00:21:05
I think it's about creating the space. 00:21:06
Because like in this example you handed out. 00:21:08
You know, a one bedroom unit with A1? 00:21:11
Parking spot. 00:21:14
Is just by design a problem. 00:21:16
Because especially if. 00:21:19
The answer to that is, oh, we have a single car garage. 00:21:21
That is your one parking spot per unit. 00:21:24
Yeah, and that's the. 00:21:28
So you're already in trouble right there and then, if anybody else. 00:21:30
Or you actually have two cars. 00:21:33
For that one bedroom unit, which could be really common. 00:21:35
So. 00:21:39
OK. I think one of the things that. 00:21:40
I would like for us to continue, I mean. 00:21:44
Even though you've got a. 00:21:46
An example parking ordinance and you've got a kind of a draft of a land development ordinance. 00:21:48
I want to keep. 00:21:55
Kind of iteratively. 00:21:56
Approaching this because. 00:21:57
One of the important things to think about with parking is that. 00:21:59
Our parking standards. 00:22:02
Although they exist. 00:22:04
In the zoning. 00:22:06
Are not by zone. 00:22:07
If that makes any sense, right. And so I think that we have to think about. 00:22:09
Commercial parking standards and commercial parking lot design. 00:22:15
So that was my question. I was saying would that in those sections in this land development ordinance? 00:22:19
Then be broken down by OK if it's. 00:22:25
This kind of zone or this kind of development, there would be some separate. 00:22:28
Standards because having something that applied. 00:22:32
Across the board probably won't work. 00:22:34
The parking standards would develop. One would be the use. 00:22:37
So. 00:22:43
Industrial use, they may not need it. So they're categories within OK. 00:22:44
And so just to sorry. 00:22:49
Just to. 00:22:51
Further kind of take that thought is the. 00:22:52
We have really, I think 3 areas, maybe 4 areas. 00:22:56
Where staff looks at. 00:23:01
Parking 1 is a major subdivision, right? We've talked about that quite a bit. 00:23:02
2 would be. 00:23:07
A new commercial development. 00:23:08
3 is an existing commercial development. 00:23:10
So what we're starting to see? 00:23:13
Is a rehabilitation. 00:23:16
Of existing commercial properties. 00:23:18
And I think the more. 00:23:20
Traction we get with our blight tax, the more we're going to see them. 00:23:23
So there are opportunities. 00:23:27
With parking on already established. 00:23:30
Commercial parking lots. 00:23:34
In fact, most of the time they're over parked. 00:23:36
Right. And so Dina has found some interesting stuff around. 00:23:38
You know, I think it was the county. 00:23:41
That, uh. 00:23:43
You know, allows you to go up to 125% of your required parking, but no more. 00:23:44
And that kind of balances a little bit with our future. 00:23:50
Stormwater Utility. 00:23:53
Right where we'll be charging people for. 00:23:54
Charging properties for impervious surface. 00:23:57
So I think there's opportunity to look at these buckets, right, like. 00:23:59
New major subdivisions. 00:24:03
Existing commercial and commercial renovations, new commercial development, and then the last one is downtown. 00:24:05
So that's a whole nother feast. 00:24:12
Right. 00:24:14
So as we. 00:24:15
As we continue to create vibrancy in downtown. 00:24:17
The public right of way. 00:24:21
You know, we've had this a little bit with the Church St. development up the street there. 00:24:24
Starts to come into play. 00:24:29
For parking. 00:24:31
Right. And so from that comes more street parking. From that comes, you know. 00:24:33
A little bit of. 00:24:39
I think knowledge about where a downtown homeowners. 00:24:41
Property ends and the right of way begins, right? So. 00:24:45
These are all kind of. 00:24:48
Evolutionary steps that we're going to be taking and so I think just. 00:24:51
Keeping in mind that we should. 00:24:54
Have. 00:24:56
We should address that those areas of parking needs. 00:24:57
I think this is good. 00:25:02
It's a good thing is when you continue through these ordinances. 00:25:04
Just a fast question. 00:25:09
Although we would. 00:25:11
No way would the city want to enforce. 00:25:12
Covenances. 00:25:15
Right, the developer of my impression usually develops the covenants and and. 00:25:17
You can influence what is put in the. 00:25:23
You can't force them to. 00:25:26
Enforce it, but you can influence say you need to. 00:25:28
Make sure that your. 00:25:32
Parking. 00:25:33
Covenants. 00:25:34
Fits in with our city, yeah. 00:25:36
I really that's not an area that we've. 00:25:38
Pushed on too much. I mean, I think right now. 00:25:42
We look for a declaration of covenants. Sometimes we. 00:25:45
Request them from the developer, but I've never reviewed them. 00:25:50
So, umm. 00:25:55
It's a It's a space we could explore. 00:25:56
You know, I think that would. 00:26:00
Require some legal counsel. 00:26:01
Well, if nothing else, just say the covenant should include include these types of things. That's kind of where I was going, yeah. 00:26:03
Let me ask this, though. 00:26:08
So as someone who lives. 00:26:12
In a neighborhood where they eliminated the HOA. 00:26:14
And all of those requirements that were included in that. 00:26:18
Went away. 00:26:23
In the past. 00:26:26
I've kind of raised a couple times where. 00:26:27
You know the the compliance with the ordinance itself. 00:26:29
That language was. 00:26:34
Put in the. 00:26:35
In like the HOA agreement. 00:26:37
Making them in charge of enforcing that. 00:26:42
And. 00:26:45
If the HOA went away. 00:26:45
It would appear. 00:26:47
That it's unenforceable, but if you've got. 00:26:48
Land development requirements. I would assume that once you have developed it. 00:26:52
Per those standards, you can't violate that. 00:26:57
Or you would be out of compliance with the city. 00:27:01
I don't know. I mean my first question there is, is it a private? 00:27:04
Road or is it a public Rd. So that's kind of my yeah. 00:27:07
You know, parsing. 00:27:11
Yeah. I mean, I think this types of stuff, we just have to kind of put it through the grinder a little bit to hash out some of 00:27:15
those details, but. 00:27:18
I find that. 00:27:22
Our opportunities to have a spatial. 00:27:24
Influence. 00:27:27
On development are. 00:27:28
You know much. 00:27:30
Much. 00:27:32
Much before. 00:27:34
The idea of a covenant. So I would rather that we're. 00:27:36
We're approaching it earlier on in the design. 00:27:39
And then I assume like the parking example. 00:27:43
You were talking about. 00:27:45
Going up to a certain amount. 00:27:47
If then later they said we want to take some of these out lots or we want to carve up. 00:27:48
Part of the parking lot and put in. 00:27:54
You know we want to sell this to be. 00:27:56
You know some other commercial establishment that in a. 00:27:59
Approval process, you go back. 00:28:02
To see whether with that reduction, whether they still meet. 00:28:04
The standards. 00:28:08
Yeah. 00:28:09
One of the things that we didn't really talk about. 00:28:11
In this yet? 00:28:15
So I'll transition to this. 00:28:17
Is. 00:28:19
We really don't have a site plan ordinance. 00:28:20
So when? 00:28:24
Of commercial development, that is as of right. 00:28:25
Comes to. 00:28:28
We really need some codified language about what we're looking for. 00:28:30
In a site plan application. 00:28:35
Because we get a whole variety of. 00:28:38
Of detail. 00:28:41
So we're very close to having a site plan ordinance that has. 00:28:42
A checklist and shows what is required. 00:28:48
Right, and that's where we get to insert. 00:28:51
Particularly for commercial develop. 00:28:54
The stuff we want to see, right? 00:28:56
Landscaping, Lighting, site design. 00:28:58
You know, umm. 00:29:02
Perhaps. 00:29:03
Signage and things like that. So I think that we. 00:29:06
We're getting closer to codifying and setting the expectation. 00:29:09
Of what one would need. 00:29:14
When they bring forward. 00:29:16
A site plan application and this could be in an industrial zone. 00:29:18
Or a commercial zone and we. 00:29:22
Or in multifamily residential. 00:29:25
We do really well at single family. 00:29:28
Site plan. 00:29:32
And development here in the city because that's been the majority of our development. 00:29:33
So when those come into. 00:29:37
Come into the administrative. 00:29:41
Sort of development team for review. 00:29:43
We're very facile with those. 00:29:45
But there's less. 00:29:47
Sort of. 00:29:49
Commercial development has a less worn path. 00:29:50
And so giving real guidance as to what we're looking for, what we need to see. 00:29:53
And helping. 00:29:57
Owners of commercial property understand. 00:29:58
Like that? 00:30:01
It's a heavy lift. 00:30:02
To do a commercial development. 00:30:03
And so setting all those expectations. 00:30:05
Is something that will do within a site plan. 00:30:08
Wouldn't parking fall into that same category though? It does. 00:30:11
And I'm sorry, that was a roundabout way to say. 00:30:15
Yes, when a site plan application came through, we would be looking at parking. 00:30:17
So couldn't you? 00:30:21
Put it in at that point. 00:30:23
And kind of control it from there saying. 00:30:25
For certain things, but not for not for like a residential subject. You can't park in the front yard. 00:30:28
That that wouldn't fall into that. 00:30:34
And are there elements that are currently in like our subdivision? 00:30:38
Requirements that actually would. 00:30:44
He moved and go to live in a land development. 00:30:46
The subdivision ordinance would actually be are a major part of. 00:30:51
I think as we move this forward, there's going to be a lot of. 00:30:57
Can we check it here and we redundancy there? I mean we're also very close. 00:31:01
To the. 00:31:06
Final rewrite of the vegetation ordinance. 00:31:07
And so as we're trying to. 00:31:10
You know, think about when that gets triggered at the staff level. 00:31:13
And where to put it and. 00:31:17
Where to talk back to other pieces? 00:31:19
You know this this idea of a land development ordinance becomes more. 00:31:23
Tolerable because they don't get lost. 00:31:26
Crisscross. 00:31:29
I think we've covered. 00:31:40
Just about everything. 00:31:41
Any other questions? 00:31:43
Can you do a little? 00:31:47
We've thrown a lot of terms around here. 00:31:50
Sure. What do we have now? 00:31:53
As far as the. 00:31:55
Ordinances. 00:31:57
Where I'm assuming we don't have a site site plan. 00:31:59
Ordinance we don't. 00:32:02
But we have a land development ordinance. 00:32:04
No, we don't have that either. 00:32:07
So. 00:32:09
When you use land development and site. 00:32:11
Plan that sort of the same thing. 00:32:13
Or is it slightly different or? 00:32:16
It's it's one is within the other. 00:32:19
OK. So that's part of all that's all approach to land development, certain applications. So the the big picture is land 00:32:22
development and then a sub. 00:32:26
Category would be the site plan. OK gotcha. That's I was getting parking. 00:32:31
A part of what's going on, right? 00:32:37
But also vegetation and landscape, correct? Yeah, you know we could, but the over 1 would be. 00:32:40
Land Develop. 00:32:45
Correct. 00:32:46
So we've kind of taken on a lot more than a parking standard now. What would you like us to do with these documents? Tell us what 00:32:49
these are and. 00:32:53
Yeah. 00:32:58
OK, the first one is. 00:33:03
Just in general. 00:33:06
Just letting everybody know what the purpose and intent of. 00:33:08
When you say the first one, since I've kind of been shifting these around Article 1, OK. 00:33:11
OK, sure title. 00:33:16
OK. 00:33:17
Then staple to that you have general development standards and design guidelines. 00:33:19
And this includes everything from protecting natural environments. 00:33:25
To standards for the underground utilities. 00:33:29
Marking utilities. 00:33:32
Permitting utilities when they come and dig, and we make sure that they put everything back the way they found it. 00:33:34
The installation that's on that second document, that is actually. 00:33:42
Attached to. 00:33:46
Article 1. 00:33:48
The other ones I've given you are parking. 00:33:49
And the site plan approval. 00:33:53
Are you differentiating between? 00:33:56
Black print and red print. 00:33:58
Yes, the red print is what's being proposed. The black print is what's currently there. 00:34:00
So what you've done here, all of this is currently. 00:34:05
Approved and in place. 00:34:09
Which that one? No, that one is not. That is all red. 00:34:11
This is all red. Yeah, it's a draft. I apologize you haven't fold together things from. 00:34:15
That are approved into here, yeah, no, not yet. So this is all new. These are examples of yes existing yeah, OK. 00:34:21
So one thing I was thinking about as you were. 00:34:29
Talking. 00:34:31
Because it's come up recently in conversations. 00:34:32
I think folks don't. 00:34:35
Understand the. 00:34:36
Set back versus right away sort of thing. 00:34:38
I wonder is there anywhere in this where that's defined? 00:34:42
And so it like if you have a question that comes up from a homeowner. 00:34:46
And they're asking about that. Is there a? 00:34:51
User friendly spot where you're. 00:34:53
Routing them to currently. 00:34:55
I haven't had somebody ask me that here yet, but what we can do is we can put that into a definition, OK? 00:34:57
And this way there's there's. 00:35:04
Complete and we can actually have. 00:35:06
In illustration. 00:35:07
In there so they can understand. 00:35:09
Because for instance in. 00:35:11
My neighborhood which has lots of mature trees. 00:35:12
There are trees marked with ribbons, which. 00:35:15
There's no explanation of what's going on, so there's a lot of discussion amongst neighbors about. 00:35:19
Well, is that the city's property? Is that my tree? 00:35:23
I know there's a right to do maintenance in a certain area. 00:35:28
But where does that line go? 00:35:32
So I think there's a lot and. 00:35:34
You see a lot of people are like, well, I don't have to mow that because that's the cities. 00:35:36
Which I've never seen in any other community. 00:35:39
So if having something that was. 00:35:42
Good, easy, user friendly. 00:35:45
That might be really helpful. 00:35:48
OK. I can definitely look at that. I think it's important to say that we came up with this approach of a land development 00:35:49
ordinance. 00:35:53
In collaboration with. 00:35:57
Our city engineer and part of that discussion that I've had with the director of public Works. 00:35:59
Is that he would like. 00:36:06
More clear guidance and language. 00:36:07
Around the right of way, yeah. 00:36:10
Yep. And so I think we could try to. 00:36:12
Tackle that. What made me think of that when you had the criteria about marking things and flags and things and it's like, oh, 00:36:16
that's kind of losing that same. 00:36:20
Category in a way. 00:36:25
I'm smiling because I had I woke up 1 morning and had a huge. 00:36:27
Road work I had in my front. 00:36:33
The last yard you know, and the set there a month. 00:36:35
I couldn't figure out. 00:36:39
Who put it there? It wasn't the cities. It wasn't Georgia Power. 00:36:42
It just showed up. 00:36:46
And stayed there. She didn't take care of her either. Tipped over she. 00:36:47
Yeah, but it was funny because. 00:36:53
You know, I'm assuming there is some right away, but. 00:36:55
You know, but even after a month, I figured it was time to get. 00:36:58
I have the same situation. I have little flags that have been put out maybe month and a half ago, two months ago. You can't really 00:37:02
mow because they're there and it's like. 00:37:06
What is this about? 00:37:12
And that's it's funny my. 00:37:14
Our house says that in the front yard now and it's it's really kind of. 00:37:16
Enlightening to see that imagery. And you're seeing like, OK, there's the telephone, there's the fiber optic, there's the sewer, 00:37:21
there's the water, there's the gas. 00:37:25
And you start to those little flags really help you visualize like, oh, right. 00:37:30
It's not from the edge of pavement. 00:37:34
You know, it's from my water meter to the house and I think that. 00:37:36
For a lot of people, that's. 00:37:39
Until you see that, you don't. 00:37:41
You're unawares. 00:37:44
And it's really enlightening when it's marked and it's actually not in the. 00:37:45
Right away. 00:37:49
Which is frequently located. Yes, it is. 00:37:52
OK, So what are the next steps on this? Obviously you'd like us to spend some time. 00:37:57
Taking a look at this, do we do? 00:38:02
And like another working session when you're ready. 00:38:04
And we would. 00:38:07
Have done some homework and kind of. 00:38:08
Do you want any feedback from us? 00:38:10
Yes. 00:38:13
OK, Yeah. 00:38:15
I think that the first sort of crack at it might be that parking. 00:38:17
OK, do that one first and then that way because I think there's still quite a few things that have to. 00:38:21
Come together for us to. 00:38:27
Put forward a land development ordinance. So do this first. Put our energies here first, OK. And is the thought that? 00:38:30
Because it it seems like. 00:38:37
This could be a. 00:38:39
Somewhat lengthy process to get. 00:38:41
It's kind of a big. 00:38:43
Thing that you've kind of bitten off there to think about. 00:38:45
Should we think about in the meantime? 00:38:48
Doing something faster on parking that then gets rolled into the end product. 00:38:51
Yes, OK, OK. 00:38:56
Yeah, because the vegetation ordinance rewrite has already. 00:38:58
That ship is mostly sail, right? 00:39:02
So it's just about. 00:39:04
Kind of sharing that with Council. 00:39:06
I'm trying to get that adopted. 00:39:08
You know it. It's also. 00:39:11
Kind of a question to me how we would. 00:39:12
I think just. 00:39:15
For to be thorough, I'd like to bring all of these before you, even though you won't. 00:39:16
Necessarily be. 00:39:22
You know the administrative arm of them, but we keep asking about them, whether they're really. 00:39:25
Dan, do we have a community elsewhere? 00:39:34
That you use as a. 00:39:36
Prototype, so to speak, or. 00:39:38
An example. 00:39:40
Where it's not. Trying to reinvent the wheel if we can. 00:39:41
Can I may I ask who it is? 00:39:45
Are there variety or is a variety? I've been using Camden County because most of the builders and developers. 00:39:48
In Saint Mary's. 00:39:55
Also developed there. 00:39:56
We have a beautiful historic area. Senoia, GA has a beautiful. 00:39:58
Prosperous historic downtown area. 00:40:04
So I'm using that. 00:40:06
Ordinance. 00:40:07
I'm also using Tyrone GA because I used to work there so I know those ordinances that are very. 00:40:09
That's where I learned all about wine development regulations, so I've been pulling from there some. 00:40:15
I've also been looking at. 00:40:20
Milledgeville. 00:40:22
Children, they have small areas they know well. 00:40:24
So areas that. 00:40:28
Fit the same sort of. 00:40:30
Topography. 00:40:32
Economic background as our city. 00:40:35
Is where I've been looking. 00:40:37
Madison, GA. 00:40:40
They have a strong history. 00:40:41
That'd be a good. That'd be a very good one, in fact. 00:40:43
And I will stick more with that. 00:40:47
Great. 00:40:52
Since it seems like we have a little more. 00:40:55
Time. Are there any other? 00:40:58
Topics that. 00:41:01
Commission members want to. 00:41:03
Throw out there or. 00:41:05
You can't think of anything offhand. 00:41:12
Hey, where are you on the? 00:41:14
Tage replacement is that. 00:41:15
Reorganizing and. 00:41:18
Looking at that job description and really. 00:41:20
You know, I mean, I think if you. 00:41:23
When I look back on it, we had done. 00:41:25
A clean sweep in the department and I brought Pajon and Taj and I were like a two person show for a long time. 00:41:27
And, you know, there was a lot of that job that got. 00:41:34
Kind of. 00:41:37
Either take it in or spread out so it's. 00:41:38
Reevaluate that now with the full team and. 00:41:41
And I hope to get it out. 00:41:44
Next week. 00:41:46
So it's approved the replace. 00:41:48
Oh, yeah. Oh, you just changed? Looking at changing the job description a little bit, yeah. 00:41:50
All right. Well, with that I think we can close the. 00:41:57
Working session and then we'll be starting at 5:30 on our regular. 00:42:01
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Transcript

Event transcript
Covered a few things with you all today. 00:00:41
And what we're about to walk through is really. 00:00:46
The hard work of our senior planner, Planner Christina Rini. 00:00:49
And I think. 00:00:54
In our conversations about. 00:00:55
Parking. What we arrived at is really thinking about how. 00:00:58
The in the city's ordinances. 00:01:04
Is this working? 00:01:07
I don't. 00:01:10
It's giving me the. 00:01:13
The drain light. 00:01:14
It might be. 00:01:17
Might be OK. 00:01:18
Project yeah, projecting to the to those streaming at home. 00:01:21
Anyways, I think. 00:01:25
It turned on us that. 00:01:26
There might be. 00:01:29
A more elegant approach. 00:01:30
To how we. 00:01:33
Develop in general. 00:01:34
And that it's not uncommon. 00:01:36
For municipalities. 00:01:39
To have a land development ordinance. 00:01:41
Right. And and in that ordinance would be things like? 00:01:45
Parking. 00:01:50
Landscaping and vegetation. 00:01:51
Site plans, a lot of the things that we're trying to work on. 00:01:54
Now and either. 00:01:58
Insert or cobble together in our. 00:01:59
Existing ordinances we might be able to kind of. 00:02:03
I think a little bit more elegantly tie it together than doing. 00:02:07
Ordinance revision after ordinance revision. 00:02:11
So hey, Mr. Seals. 00:02:13
So that that's. 00:02:15
Kind of what what spurred this our initial discussion? 00:02:17
Was yes around parking? 00:02:21
But we wanted to. 00:02:24
Think a little bit about. That's interesting. 00:02:26
It didn't advance on my screen, but it advanced up there. 00:02:29
OK, um. 00:02:33
So. 00:02:35
This I think if you all can see this. 00:02:36
These would be the types of things or elements that are included. 00:02:39
In a land development ordinance. 00:02:43
So I'll just give you a moment. 00:02:46
Look at those. 00:02:48
And Dina will go into more detail and I think that. 00:02:51
For you, it's important to keep in mind that. 00:02:56
You don't always see. 00:03:00
Every. 00:03:02
Development. 00:03:03
So as commissioners, you see. 00:03:04
Major and minor subdivisions. 00:03:07
You see special use permits. 00:03:09
You see variances. 00:03:12
But. 00:03:14
For example. 00:03:14
Permitted use in our commercial zoning. 00:03:16
Let's say a hotel. 00:03:19
Would like to cite. 00:03:20
On Osborne in C2 zoning. 00:03:22
You wouldn't see that. 00:03:24
That would only come before. 00:03:26
The sort of internal. 00:03:29
Development team. 00:03:31
So that's whatever you hear us say. We do things administratively. 00:03:33
That's what we're talking about. 00:03:37
So I know that in the past, especially when I first started. 00:03:39
There was concern about. 00:03:44
Landscaping, lighting, site design, you know. 00:03:45
Even down to architectural materials and so. 00:03:49
We did a great job at overhauling our. 00:03:52
Commercial zoning to try to. 00:03:56
If you remember, that was on the heels of the Shadow Lawn Dollar General. 00:03:58
And we were trying to. 00:04:02
Make that. 00:04:04
A little bit more palatable. 00:04:05
And so we've we've done some good work in the C2. 00:04:07
But it's very. 00:04:10
I think staff would tell you that. 00:04:12
When we're reviewing things, it's. 00:04:14
Cobbled together where? 00:04:17
We're pulling from the vegetation ordinance, We're pulling from the C2 we're pulling from. 00:04:18
You know what will soon be a site plan ordinance. 00:04:24
So we're. 00:04:27
Sort of cobbling it together and so in thinking about the parking plan. 00:04:28
We decided to try to move towards. 00:04:33
Something that would be more. 00:04:36
All-encompassing, no matter really. 00:04:38
What type of application and what? 00:04:41
Would this be for? 00:04:44
Housing as well as commercial or all? 00:04:45
Across the board or? 00:04:48
Our subdivision ordinance would be included in this. 00:04:49
Oh, it would be OK. OK, so you would incorporate it? 00:04:52
Yeah, it's zoning. Things like that would not be. 00:04:56
OK. And I assume part of the benefit of this. 00:04:59
Is that it? Kind of? 00:05:03
Puts things in one place. 00:05:04
So also from a developer's perspective. 00:05:06
Trying to hunt down these things would be simpler. 00:05:09
Exactly. That's exactly what I was going to say, and that's one of the reasons why. 00:05:12
Jamie and I were talking about looking at this. 00:05:16
Is because. 00:05:20
Everything's in one place now. 00:05:21
They can go through it. They've got their vegetation ordinance, their lighting ordinance, their parking ordinance. 00:05:23
Guide development guideline ordinances, streets. 00:05:30
Sidewalks, everything's in one place. 00:05:33
So does that mean that? 00:05:36
For some of these topics. 00:05:38
There would be. 00:05:41
In this a section under whatever topic we were talking about that that would say OK. 00:05:43
If you're an R1. 00:05:49
Here are the rules that will apply. 00:05:50
Or is the idea that they would be the same? 00:05:52
Requirement across the board. 00:05:55
It would be the same requirement because these would apply to items in all subdivisions. 00:05:57
Sidewalks are in all subdivisions. 00:06:04
All commercial properties. 00:06:06
Parking lot standards would be in all commercial non residential properties. So all of these standards now when it came to 00:06:09
setbacks. 00:06:12
Uses green space. 00:06:17
For like the PD. 00:06:19
That would just be in the zoning category. 00:06:22
And then one of the things I pondered about and. 00:06:25
That I think the parking has made it difficult, but maybe. 00:06:29
That applies to some of these other things is that. 00:06:32
At the point, oftentimes we're reviewing something in a. 00:06:35
Proving it. And we've asked them. 00:06:39
You know, like on parking. I was asking, so how many bedroom units are these? 00:06:41
To be able to try to figure out what's adequate. 00:06:46
And there. 00:06:49
Essentially saying we're not at that. 00:06:50
Point at this point so. 00:06:51
Would these standards then? 00:06:53
Apply and then whatever your end. 00:06:56
Version was. 00:06:59
You've been. 00:07:01
Told up front. 00:07:02
That has to meet these standards so you know if you've got. 00:07:04
3 bedroom units versus one bedroom units you've already been alerted to. 00:07:07
What the applicable standard would be? 00:07:12
And that would all be contained inside the parking ordinance. OK, Yeah. 00:07:14
I think that one of the things that we. 00:07:17
So. 00:07:22
But I. 00:07:25
One of the. 00:07:29
Ideas that we started from is our zoning ordinance is currently where our parking standards. 00:07:31
So we can. 00:07:39
Look at these a few different ways right? Like. 00:07:40
In our current. 00:07:43
Number of required parking spaces. 00:07:45
Chart, you know. 00:07:49
If a residential development has two or more bedrooms, it's 2. 00:07:50
Per unit. 00:07:55
So you know if we if we have learned a few things in our subdivisions. 00:07:56
You know. 00:08:02
Perhaps that's not enough. 00:08:03
Parking right with the advent of, you know, a more golf. 00:08:05
Carnival community I know that in many developments the golf cart garage is. 00:08:10
Something that excites people, right? So. 00:08:16
It's kind of like we can tweak it in a few different ways. 00:08:19
We can look at. 00:08:23
Sure, yeah. 00:08:26
Hi, welcome. 00:08:29
Nothing. OK. 00:08:32
So a little bit about parking standards. 00:08:38
So we were trying to think of ways that you could. 00:08:41
Increase the space where people park. 00:08:44
I mean, there's a lot of different. 00:08:48
Tools that we could use. 00:08:49
Particularly in our. 00:08:52
I think the way that. 00:08:55
Major residential. 00:08:57
Subdivisions are going. 00:08:59
Is there not going to do? 00:09:01
They're not going to come forward with straight zones. 00:09:03
Which is the 75 foot lots the way that we've organized the new subdivision ordinance. 00:09:06
They're going to either come forward with a planned development district which has a mix of uses. 00:09:11
Or they're gonna come forward with. 00:09:16
Residential density bonus application. 00:09:18
And in those two you can think about those things as asks. 00:09:21
And in those two asks. 00:09:24
Then there's space for us. 00:09:26
To discuss similarly. 00:09:28
To what we did with the. 00:09:29
Ryan Holmes, Conceptual class. 00:09:31
We talked about. 00:09:34
Wider streets we talked about. 00:09:36
Additional parking, you know, and so you can. 00:09:38
In that discussion you can try. 00:09:40
To find ways. 00:09:43
And it might even be in the set back. 00:09:44
I mean, you know, it might be that we change some of the model, right? Instead of a. 00:09:47
20 foot or 25 foot set back. 00:09:51
We have a deeper set back, which means a longer driveway, which means more cars in the trail. 00:09:54
Yeah, so and then you know. 00:09:59
Was snooping around looking at other ideas. 00:10:01
Talk about these. 00:10:04
One is to require the apron on the side of the driveway. 00:10:05
And you can do that through different papers or just through the. 00:10:10
Concrete. The pavers would give you the aesthetic look. 00:10:14
But that could be used for additional parking. 00:10:18
Would that be are those pavers? Have you looked at the permeable pavers? 00:10:21
Yes, I have looked at the yeah, that would be a bonus. That would, that would be a bonus with the new storm water fees, yeah. 00:10:26
That would reduce the runoff, but that's one option. Another option. 00:10:34
Such as with the Ryan homes where they made the streets wider. 00:10:39
Is doing bump outs at the corners. 00:10:42
Since the streets are watered, you're going to have some people speeding through the subdivision going around someone that's not 00:10:45
going as fast as they are or they would like them to. The bump outs would. 00:10:50
Completely eliminate driving around. 00:10:56
Where they drive them down the parking spaces? Yes, yes. 00:11:00
So at the end of the day, it's setting a standard for. 00:11:04
How much parking and then you've got. 00:11:08
Some things you've identified as ways you can. 00:11:11
Needs that, but I I think where we. 00:11:14
Got to this aware I. 00:11:17
Got to the. 00:11:19
Feeling that we. 00:11:20
We have a lot of these where. 00:11:21
You know there's. 00:11:25
There's barely enough parking on site. 00:11:26
Depending on the occupancy in the unit and then. 00:11:30
Any visitors? 00:11:34
Sort of thing. And we had a lot of these communities where they. 00:11:37
Said you know. 00:11:40
If there's any street parking. 00:11:41
That's the problem and. 00:11:43
In their parking, even when there's not an accommodation for that so. 00:11:45
And it particularly to me, came up when we had. 00:11:49
Townhouses. 00:11:52
Where they oftentimes had single car garages so they had. 00:11:53
Only a single width driveway. 00:11:57
And then we've got these shorter. 00:11:59
Setbacks when we keep talking about well. 00:12:01
If you've got a big truck sitting there. 00:12:03
Does it even clear the sidewalks sort of things I. 00:12:06
I think we've been kind of. 00:12:09
Moving towards, you know, maybe our standards. 00:12:11
Aren't adequate and we've had some discussions in some of these where. 00:12:16
A multifamily. 00:12:21
Were then like they did some alternative like. 00:12:23
Guest parking. 00:12:26
There wasn't directly in front of the unit, but that seemed. 00:12:28
Like a solution. So it seems like we've. 00:12:31
If we can. 00:12:33
Come up with an appropriate standard. 00:12:34
And then what's an acceptable way to meet that? 00:12:36
It would be helpful. 00:12:40
And we can do that through the minimum parking space. 00:12:41
One of the. 00:12:45
Ordinances that I. 00:12:47
Reviewed. 00:12:48
And took a lot of examples and put them into. 00:12:49
The ordinance that I presented to you. 00:12:53
Is Camden County and they have single family residence. Is A2 dwelling unit. 00:12:55
There's a 2 per dwelling unit. 00:13:00
But you can look at doing it from bedrooms. 00:13:02
If it has four bedrooms, you might want to up that to three parking spaces. 3 bedrooms, 2 parking spaces, 5 bedrooms, 4 parking 00:13:05
spaces. 00:13:09
So it would go where they are. 00:13:15
Where are you? 00:13:18
Go ahead. 00:13:21
One one thing that's happened. 00:13:24
In today's climate. 00:13:27
If you got a four bedroom. 00:13:29
House or three bedroom house? 00:13:32
What requires 2 parking spaces? 00:13:35
But if you gotta. 00:13:39
3 bedroom house you probably got. 00:13:41
A bowl of father and two children. 00:13:43
Two children are driving. 00:13:45
Have to move cars that's. 00:13:47
But I wouldn't eat it. 00:13:50
And so. 00:13:52
We now launched the bills to get now. 00:13:53
They can't park on the side, the only place they can park. 00:13:58
In the front yard. 00:14:04
Or on the street. 00:14:05
And nobody wants to put. 00:14:07
Park in the front yard. 00:14:09
'Cause it doesn't look good. 00:14:11
So we need to make. 00:14:12
And that's one thing wrong with it. 00:14:15
Several 20. 00:14:18
Foot front yard. 00:14:19
The big drunk won't fit that. 00:14:22
We also don't have an occupancy standard. 00:14:24
So that four bedroom could be. 00:14:27
Occupied by. 00:14:30
Like 4 folks who are sharing. 00:14:31
Who you know four or six or more. 00:14:34
I think I sent a photo at one point. 00:14:38
There's where I walk every day. There are townhouses. 00:14:41
And. 00:14:46
The one townhouse always has. 00:14:47
Five vehicles and so 2 are in the driveway. 00:14:48
Because nothing is in the garage. Because I'm sure it's storage. 00:14:52
Two were in the front lawn. 00:14:55
And then oftentimes they have two people setting. 00:14:56
With cars parked in the set back across the street. 00:14:59
Because it happens to be a vacant. 00:15:04
And then you've got. 00:15:06
4 units. 00:15:07
That all have that same sort of issue and it seems like. 00:15:09
Going forward, we're sort of building. 00:15:13
What we're going to end up with in the future, that if we can. 00:15:15
Tweak this. 00:15:20
Parking requirements you could do. I'm sorry. 00:15:22
Multifamily. 00:15:24
And then or townhome developments where they would have to have a guest parking lot. 00:15:26
Yeah, yeah. And I think that. 00:15:31
One of the other things that we could do is we could go back through the building department data. 00:15:33
And we could pull. 00:15:38
What we're actually building because in my mind. 00:15:39
One of the most rapidly building out development. 00:15:43
Is Hayden Point? 00:15:46
That you know, you've seen now phases. 00:15:48
1-2 and three come before you. 00:15:50
And Hayden Point is building 4 and five bedroom. 00:15:52
That's what they're bringing to money. 00:15:56
So I think. 00:15:58
You know, if we look at some of that data. 00:15:59
That we could actually give good data through the building department and single family residential permits. 00:16:01
We could say that for our commun. 00:16:07
This is the type of. 00:16:10
Yeah, building that we're seeing. So when? 00:16:11
We list something like, you know, a residential. 00:16:14
Parking requirement for two or more bedrooms. 00:16:17
We're now at 4 spaces rather than two spaces. 00:16:20
I think Matt had a. 00:16:25
OK, I also remember what it was. 00:16:27
Alright, thank you. 00:16:31
And one of the issues that I don't know that I have this in order but. 00:16:32
It seems like we have to balance. 00:16:37
If we got a. 00:16:39
Four and five bedroom. 00:16:40
Project. 00:16:42
We've either got to create. 00:16:43
Or require. 00:16:45
Sufficient. 00:16:47
Parking in a driveway, either through an. 00:16:48
A higher sprung set back. 00:16:51
So not go out and encroach upon the sidewalk or. 00:16:54
In the alternative. 00:16:57
Require that development to have a. 00:16:59
Wider St. 00:17:01
OK, in order to. 00:17:04
Accommodate whatever minimum distance is required for street parking. 00:17:05
One of the others got to happen. 00:17:10
And I will agree. 00:17:13
This concept of. 00:17:15
Having. 00:17:18
Excess parking in an area that's not convenient to the dwelling. 00:17:20
Typically just doesn't work. Nobody know. 00:17:25
Park 100 yards down the street and walk themselves up and back from. 00:17:27
Whoever you're visiting. 00:17:31
You're going to pull up in the yard, they're going to pull up on the curb, they're going to pull up. 00:17:33
Sidewalk. 00:17:37
And it's just, and that's all the kind of things that we don't like to say. 00:17:38
And I know it's late making that comment. 00:17:42
I guess in the. 00:17:46
Work we've done, but I think you've got to have one or the other. 00:17:47
I don't think it's. 00:17:51
Pretty much as a in a in a 2 bedroom. 00:17:52
Dwelling, you know, I'm saying I think I do. 00:17:57
We can deal with it. 00:18:00
But this evening, one or the other, either a quieter. 00:18:01
St. requirement that allow. 00:18:04
Enough room for cars to pass with street parking. 00:18:06
Or more parking. 00:18:10
Capacity on the site itself. 00:18:14
Increased set back or. 00:18:17
Water driveway or something? 00:18:19
Okay. 00:18:21
Do we have the the authority or the? 00:18:23
Potential authority. 00:18:26
To dictate a covenant. 00:18:29
For a community. 00:18:30
A forest built. 00:18:31
In other words, I'll give you an example where I'm coming from. 00:18:34
My son just moved to the community well north of Atlanta. 00:18:38
That's got the strictest parking covenants I've ever seen. 00:18:41
He is A2 car garage. 00:18:45
And in order to put. 00:18:48
Car in the driveway. 00:18:49
He has to show that there are two cars in the garage. 00:18:51
Before anyone. 00:18:55
Including his family. 00:18:56
You can park in the driveway. 00:18:57
So in his case, he's got. 00:18:59
Three, sometimes 4 cars. 00:19:01
But the only time they can park in a driveway is both he and his wife's cars are in the garage. 00:19:03
But that's done through the covenant rather than the city. 00:19:08
Yeah, I wonder if there's any way to. 00:19:11
Enforce a covenant. 00:19:14
Hayden Point might be an example. It's too late there. 00:19:17
But new ones coming in. 00:19:19
Or is that beyond our? 00:19:21
Realm of authority. 00:19:23
Well, I don't think we can afford enforce the government. We can require them to put them in. 00:19:25
And and they put him in. 00:19:33
But it's up to the hormones. 00:19:35
And some whole associations won't do it. Well, that would be up to them to do it, yeah. 00:19:38
But. 00:19:43
So yeah. 00:19:45
Yeah, I would. 00:19:49
Rather, approach it through design. 00:19:51
Well, here's an alternative thought on that so. 00:19:52
I'd assume. 00:19:55
At least what I've seen in the past in other places is that when there's a garage, that's counted. 00:19:56
As part of your provision of parking. 00:20:02
But the reality that we see for the most part is that garages are used. 00:20:04
Here for storage. 00:20:09
That's what this was. That's where this so. 00:20:11
I mean the enforcement. 00:20:14
On, you know, trying to make people use their. 00:20:17
Garages I. 00:20:19
Even if you could. 00:20:21
Put that in place the. 00:20:22
The nightmare it would create for the city on that I think wouldn't accomplish anything but. 00:20:25
If the reality is that the. 00:20:31
Garage. 00:20:33
Isn't actually being. 00:20:34
Utilized. 00:20:36
Then if we either don't include the garage as part of counting towards. 00:20:37
The required parking. 00:20:42
Or we raise. 00:20:43
The uh. 00:20:45
Limits or the minimum standards enough. 00:20:46
To say that you know, even without. 00:20:50
The garage. We've got some overflow. 00:20:52
That's that's handled there. We would accomplish the same. 00:20:55
Thing essentially. 00:20:58
And it would be enforceable by design. 00:21:00
As opposed to use. 00:21:03
Down the road. 00:21:05
I think it's about creating the space. 00:21:06
Because like in this example you handed out. 00:21:08
You know, a one bedroom unit with A1? 00:21:11
Parking spot. 00:21:14
Is just by design a problem. 00:21:16
Because especially if. 00:21:19
The answer to that is, oh, we have a single car garage. 00:21:21
That is your one parking spot per unit. 00:21:24
Yeah, and that's the. 00:21:28
So you're already in trouble right there and then, if anybody else. 00:21:30
Or you actually have two cars. 00:21:33
For that one bedroom unit, which could be really common. 00:21:35
So. 00:21:39
OK. I think one of the things that. 00:21:40
I would like for us to continue, I mean. 00:21:44
Even though you've got a. 00:21:46
An example parking ordinance and you've got a kind of a draft of a land development ordinance. 00:21:48
I want to keep. 00:21:55
Kind of iteratively. 00:21:56
Approaching this because. 00:21:57
One of the important things to think about with parking is that. 00:21:59
Our parking standards. 00:22:02
Although they exist. 00:22:04
In the zoning. 00:22:06
Are not by zone. 00:22:07
If that makes any sense, right. And so I think that we have to think about. 00:22:09
Commercial parking standards and commercial parking lot design. 00:22:15
So that was my question. I was saying would that in those sections in this land development ordinance? 00:22:19
Then be broken down by OK if it's. 00:22:25
This kind of zone or this kind of development, there would be some separate. 00:22:28
Standards because having something that applied. 00:22:32
Across the board probably won't work. 00:22:34
The parking standards would develop. One would be the use. 00:22:37
So. 00:22:43
Industrial use, they may not need it. So they're categories within OK. 00:22:44
And so just to sorry. 00:22:49
Just to. 00:22:51
Further kind of take that thought is the. 00:22:52
We have really, I think 3 areas, maybe 4 areas. 00:22:56
Where staff looks at. 00:23:01
Parking 1 is a major subdivision, right? We've talked about that quite a bit. 00:23:02
2 would be. 00:23:07
A new commercial development. 00:23:08
3 is an existing commercial development. 00:23:10
So what we're starting to see? 00:23:13
Is a rehabilitation. 00:23:16
Of existing commercial properties. 00:23:18
And I think the more. 00:23:20
Traction we get with our blight tax, the more we're going to see them. 00:23:23
So there are opportunities. 00:23:27
With parking on already established. 00:23:30
Commercial parking lots. 00:23:34
In fact, most of the time they're over parked. 00:23:36
Right. And so Dina has found some interesting stuff around. 00:23:38
You know, I think it was the county. 00:23:41
That, uh. 00:23:43
You know, allows you to go up to 125% of your required parking, but no more. 00:23:44
And that kind of balances a little bit with our future. 00:23:50
Stormwater Utility. 00:23:53
Right where we'll be charging people for. 00:23:54
Charging properties for impervious surface. 00:23:57
So I think there's opportunity to look at these buckets, right, like. 00:23:59
New major subdivisions. 00:24:03
Existing commercial and commercial renovations, new commercial development, and then the last one is downtown. 00:24:05
So that's a whole nother feast. 00:24:12
Right. 00:24:14
So as we. 00:24:15
As we continue to create vibrancy in downtown. 00:24:17
The public right of way. 00:24:21
You know, we've had this a little bit with the Church St. development up the street there. 00:24:24
Starts to come into play. 00:24:29
For parking. 00:24:31
Right. And so from that comes more street parking. From that comes, you know. 00:24:33
A little bit of. 00:24:39
I think knowledge about where a downtown homeowners. 00:24:41
Property ends and the right of way begins, right? So. 00:24:45
These are all kind of. 00:24:48
Evolutionary steps that we're going to be taking and so I think just. 00:24:51
Keeping in mind that we should. 00:24:54
Have. 00:24:56
We should address that those areas of parking needs. 00:24:57
I think this is good. 00:25:02
It's a good thing is when you continue through these ordinances. 00:25:04
Just a fast question. 00:25:09
Although we would. 00:25:11
No way would the city want to enforce. 00:25:12
Covenances. 00:25:15
Right, the developer of my impression usually develops the covenants and and. 00:25:17
You can influence what is put in the. 00:25:23
You can't force them to. 00:25:26
Enforce it, but you can influence say you need to. 00:25:28
Make sure that your. 00:25:32
Parking. 00:25:33
Covenants. 00:25:34
Fits in with our city, yeah. 00:25:36
I really that's not an area that we've. 00:25:38
Pushed on too much. I mean, I think right now. 00:25:42
We look for a declaration of covenants. Sometimes we. 00:25:45
Request them from the developer, but I've never reviewed them. 00:25:50
So, umm. 00:25:55
It's a It's a space we could explore. 00:25:56
You know, I think that would. 00:26:00
Require some legal counsel. 00:26:01
Well, if nothing else, just say the covenant should include include these types of things. That's kind of where I was going, yeah. 00:26:03
Let me ask this, though. 00:26:08
So as someone who lives. 00:26:12
In a neighborhood where they eliminated the HOA. 00:26:14
And all of those requirements that were included in that. 00:26:18
Went away. 00:26:23
In the past. 00:26:26
I've kind of raised a couple times where. 00:26:27
You know the the compliance with the ordinance itself. 00:26:29
That language was. 00:26:34
Put in the. 00:26:35
In like the HOA agreement. 00:26:37
Making them in charge of enforcing that. 00:26:42
And. 00:26:45
If the HOA went away. 00:26:45
It would appear. 00:26:47
That it's unenforceable, but if you've got. 00:26:48
Land development requirements. I would assume that once you have developed it. 00:26:52
Per those standards, you can't violate that. 00:26:57
Or you would be out of compliance with the city. 00:27:01
I don't know. I mean my first question there is, is it a private? 00:27:04
Road or is it a public Rd. So that's kind of my yeah. 00:27:07
You know, parsing. 00:27:11
Yeah. I mean, I think this types of stuff, we just have to kind of put it through the grinder a little bit to hash out some of 00:27:15
those details, but. 00:27:18
I find that. 00:27:22
Our opportunities to have a spatial. 00:27:24
Influence. 00:27:27
On development are. 00:27:28
You know much. 00:27:30
Much. 00:27:32
Much before. 00:27:34
The idea of a covenant. So I would rather that we're. 00:27:36
We're approaching it earlier on in the design. 00:27:39
And then I assume like the parking example. 00:27:43
You were talking about. 00:27:45
Going up to a certain amount. 00:27:47
If then later they said we want to take some of these out lots or we want to carve up. 00:27:48
Part of the parking lot and put in. 00:27:54
You know we want to sell this to be. 00:27:56
You know some other commercial establishment that in a. 00:27:59
Approval process, you go back. 00:28:02
To see whether with that reduction, whether they still meet. 00:28:04
The standards. 00:28:08
Yeah. 00:28:09
One of the things that we didn't really talk about. 00:28:11
In this yet? 00:28:15
So I'll transition to this. 00:28:17
Is. 00:28:19
We really don't have a site plan ordinance. 00:28:20
So when? 00:28:24
Of commercial development, that is as of right. 00:28:25
Comes to. 00:28:28
We really need some codified language about what we're looking for. 00:28:30
In a site plan application. 00:28:35
Because we get a whole variety of. 00:28:38
Of detail. 00:28:41
So we're very close to having a site plan ordinance that has. 00:28:42
A checklist and shows what is required. 00:28:48
Right, and that's where we get to insert. 00:28:51
Particularly for commercial develop. 00:28:54
The stuff we want to see, right? 00:28:56
Landscaping, Lighting, site design. 00:28:58
You know, umm. 00:29:02
Perhaps. 00:29:03
Signage and things like that. So I think that we. 00:29:06
We're getting closer to codifying and setting the expectation. 00:29:09
Of what one would need. 00:29:14
When they bring forward. 00:29:16
A site plan application and this could be in an industrial zone. 00:29:18
Or a commercial zone and we. 00:29:22
Or in multifamily residential. 00:29:25
We do really well at single family. 00:29:28
Site plan. 00:29:32
And development here in the city because that's been the majority of our development. 00:29:33
So when those come into. 00:29:37
Come into the administrative. 00:29:41
Sort of development team for review. 00:29:43
We're very facile with those. 00:29:45
But there's less. 00:29:47
Sort of. 00:29:49
Commercial development has a less worn path. 00:29:50
And so giving real guidance as to what we're looking for, what we need to see. 00:29:53
And helping. 00:29:57
Owners of commercial property understand. 00:29:58
Like that? 00:30:01
It's a heavy lift. 00:30:02
To do a commercial development. 00:30:03
And so setting all those expectations. 00:30:05
Is something that will do within a site plan. 00:30:08
Wouldn't parking fall into that same category though? It does. 00:30:11
And I'm sorry, that was a roundabout way to say. 00:30:15
Yes, when a site plan application came through, we would be looking at parking. 00:30:17
So couldn't you? 00:30:21
Put it in at that point. 00:30:23
And kind of control it from there saying. 00:30:25
For certain things, but not for not for like a residential subject. You can't park in the front yard. 00:30:28
That that wouldn't fall into that. 00:30:34
And are there elements that are currently in like our subdivision? 00:30:38
Requirements that actually would. 00:30:44
He moved and go to live in a land development. 00:30:46
The subdivision ordinance would actually be are a major part of. 00:30:51
I think as we move this forward, there's going to be a lot of. 00:30:57
Can we check it here and we redundancy there? I mean we're also very close. 00:31:01
To the. 00:31:06
Final rewrite of the vegetation ordinance. 00:31:07
And so as we're trying to. 00:31:10
You know, think about when that gets triggered at the staff level. 00:31:13
And where to put it and. 00:31:17
Where to talk back to other pieces? 00:31:19
You know this this idea of a land development ordinance becomes more. 00:31:23
Tolerable because they don't get lost. 00:31:26
Crisscross. 00:31:29
I think we've covered. 00:31:40
Just about everything. 00:31:41
Any other questions? 00:31:43
Can you do a little? 00:31:47
We've thrown a lot of terms around here. 00:31:50
Sure. What do we have now? 00:31:53
As far as the. 00:31:55
Ordinances. 00:31:57
Where I'm assuming we don't have a site site plan. 00:31:59
Ordinance we don't. 00:32:02
But we have a land development ordinance. 00:32:04
No, we don't have that either. 00:32:07
So. 00:32:09
When you use land development and site. 00:32:11
Plan that sort of the same thing. 00:32:13
Or is it slightly different or? 00:32:16
It's it's one is within the other. 00:32:19
OK. So that's part of all that's all approach to land development, certain applications. So the the big picture is land 00:32:22
development and then a sub. 00:32:26
Category would be the site plan. OK gotcha. That's I was getting parking. 00:32:31
A part of what's going on, right? 00:32:37
But also vegetation and landscape, correct? Yeah, you know we could, but the over 1 would be. 00:32:40
Land Develop. 00:32:45
Correct. 00:32:46
So we've kind of taken on a lot more than a parking standard now. What would you like us to do with these documents? Tell us what 00:32:49
these are and. 00:32:53
Yeah. 00:32:58
OK, the first one is. 00:33:03
Just in general. 00:33:06
Just letting everybody know what the purpose and intent of. 00:33:08
When you say the first one, since I've kind of been shifting these around Article 1, OK. 00:33:11
OK, sure title. 00:33:16
OK. 00:33:17
Then staple to that you have general development standards and design guidelines. 00:33:19
And this includes everything from protecting natural environments. 00:33:25
To standards for the underground utilities. 00:33:29
Marking utilities. 00:33:32
Permitting utilities when they come and dig, and we make sure that they put everything back the way they found it. 00:33:34
The installation that's on that second document, that is actually. 00:33:42
Attached to. 00:33:46
Article 1. 00:33:48
The other ones I've given you are parking. 00:33:49
And the site plan approval. 00:33:53
Are you differentiating between? 00:33:56
Black print and red print. 00:33:58
Yes, the red print is what's being proposed. The black print is what's currently there. 00:34:00
So what you've done here, all of this is currently. 00:34:05
Approved and in place. 00:34:09
Which that one? No, that one is not. That is all red. 00:34:11
This is all red. Yeah, it's a draft. I apologize you haven't fold together things from. 00:34:15
That are approved into here, yeah, no, not yet. So this is all new. These are examples of yes existing yeah, OK. 00:34:21
So one thing I was thinking about as you were. 00:34:29
Talking. 00:34:31
Because it's come up recently in conversations. 00:34:32
I think folks don't. 00:34:35
Understand the. 00:34:36
Set back versus right away sort of thing. 00:34:38
I wonder is there anywhere in this where that's defined? 00:34:42
And so it like if you have a question that comes up from a homeowner. 00:34:46
And they're asking about that. Is there a? 00:34:51
User friendly spot where you're. 00:34:53
Routing them to currently. 00:34:55
I haven't had somebody ask me that here yet, but what we can do is we can put that into a definition, OK? 00:34:57
And this way there's there's. 00:35:04
Complete and we can actually have. 00:35:06
In illustration. 00:35:07
In there so they can understand. 00:35:09
Because for instance in. 00:35:11
My neighborhood which has lots of mature trees. 00:35:12
There are trees marked with ribbons, which. 00:35:15
There's no explanation of what's going on, so there's a lot of discussion amongst neighbors about. 00:35:19
Well, is that the city's property? Is that my tree? 00:35:23
I know there's a right to do maintenance in a certain area. 00:35:28
But where does that line go? 00:35:32
So I think there's a lot and. 00:35:34
You see a lot of people are like, well, I don't have to mow that because that's the cities. 00:35:36
Which I've never seen in any other community. 00:35:39
So if having something that was. 00:35:42
Good, easy, user friendly. 00:35:45
That might be really helpful. 00:35:48
OK. I can definitely look at that. I think it's important to say that we came up with this approach of a land development 00:35:49
ordinance. 00:35:53
In collaboration with. 00:35:57
Our city engineer and part of that discussion that I've had with the director of public Works. 00:35:59
Is that he would like. 00:36:06
More clear guidance and language. 00:36:07
Around the right of way, yeah. 00:36:10
Yep. And so I think we could try to. 00:36:12
Tackle that. What made me think of that when you had the criteria about marking things and flags and things and it's like, oh, 00:36:16
that's kind of losing that same. 00:36:20
Category in a way. 00:36:25
I'm smiling because I had I woke up 1 morning and had a huge. 00:36:27
Road work I had in my front. 00:36:33
The last yard you know, and the set there a month. 00:36:35
I couldn't figure out. 00:36:39
Who put it there? It wasn't the cities. It wasn't Georgia Power. 00:36:42
It just showed up. 00:36:46
And stayed there. She didn't take care of her either. Tipped over she. 00:36:47
Yeah, but it was funny because. 00:36:53
You know, I'm assuming there is some right away, but. 00:36:55
You know, but even after a month, I figured it was time to get. 00:36:58
I have the same situation. I have little flags that have been put out maybe month and a half ago, two months ago. You can't really 00:37:02
mow because they're there and it's like. 00:37:06
What is this about? 00:37:12
And that's it's funny my. 00:37:14
Our house says that in the front yard now and it's it's really kind of. 00:37:16
Enlightening to see that imagery. And you're seeing like, OK, there's the telephone, there's the fiber optic, there's the sewer, 00:37:21
there's the water, there's the gas. 00:37:25
And you start to those little flags really help you visualize like, oh, right. 00:37:30
It's not from the edge of pavement. 00:37:34
You know, it's from my water meter to the house and I think that. 00:37:36
For a lot of people, that's. 00:37:39
Until you see that, you don't. 00:37:41
You're unawares. 00:37:44
And it's really enlightening when it's marked and it's actually not in the. 00:37:45
Right away. 00:37:49
Which is frequently located. Yes, it is. 00:37:52
OK, So what are the next steps on this? Obviously you'd like us to spend some time. 00:37:57
Taking a look at this, do we do? 00:38:02
And like another working session when you're ready. 00:38:04
And we would. 00:38:07
Have done some homework and kind of. 00:38:08
Do you want any feedback from us? 00:38:10
Yes. 00:38:13
OK, Yeah. 00:38:15
I think that the first sort of crack at it might be that parking. 00:38:17
OK, do that one first and then that way because I think there's still quite a few things that have to. 00:38:21
Come together for us to. 00:38:27
Put forward a land development ordinance. So do this first. Put our energies here first, OK. And is the thought that? 00:38:30
Because it it seems like. 00:38:37
This could be a. 00:38:39
Somewhat lengthy process to get. 00:38:41
It's kind of a big. 00:38:43
Thing that you've kind of bitten off there to think about. 00:38:45
Should we think about in the meantime? 00:38:48
Doing something faster on parking that then gets rolled into the end product. 00:38:51
Yes, OK, OK. 00:38:56
Yeah, because the vegetation ordinance rewrite has already. 00:38:58
That ship is mostly sail, right? 00:39:02
So it's just about. 00:39:04
Kind of sharing that with Council. 00:39:06
I'm trying to get that adopted. 00:39:08
You know it. It's also. 00:39:11
Kind of a question to me how we would. 00:39:12
I think just. 00:39:15
For to be thorough, I'd like to bring all of these before you, even though you won't. 00:39:16
Necessarily be. 00:39:22
You know the administrative arm of them, but we keep asking about them, whether they're really. 00:39:25
Dan, do we have a community elsewhere? 00:39:34
That you use as a. 00:39:36
Prototype, so to speak, or. 00:39:38
An example. 00:39:40
Where it's not. Trying to reinvent the wheel if we can. 00:39:41
Can I may I ask who it is? 00:39:45
Are there variety or is a variety? I've been using Camden County because most of the builders and developers. 00:39:48
In Saint Mary's. 00:39:55
Also developed there. 00:39:56
We have a beautiful historic area. Senoia, GA has a beautiful. 00:39:58
Prosperous historic downtown area. 00:40:04
So I'm using that. 00:40:06
Ordinance. 00:40:07
I'm also using Tyrone GA because I used to work there so I know those ordinances that are very. 00:40:09
That's where I learned all about wine development regulations, so I've been pulling from there some. 00:40:15
I've also been looking at. 00:40:20
Milledgeville. 00:40:22
Children, they have small areas they know well. 00:40:24
So areas that. 00:40:28
Fit the same sort of. 00:40:30
Topography. 00:40:32
Economic background as our city. 00:40:35
Is where I've been looking. 00:40:37
Madison, GA. 00:40:40
They have a strong history. 00:40:41
That'd be a good. That'd be a very good one, in fact. 00:40:43
And I will stick more with that. 00:40:47
Great. 00:40:52
Since it seems like we have a little more. 00:40:55
Time. Are there any other? 00:40:58
Topics that. 00:41:01
Commission members want to. 00:41:03
Throw out there or. 00:41:05
You can't think of anything offhand. 00:41:12
Hey, where are you on the? 00:41:14
Tage replacement is that. 00:41:15
Reorganizing and. 00:41:18
Looking at that job description and really. 00:41:20
You know, I mean, I think if you. 00:41:23
When I look back on it, we had done. 00:41:25
A clean sweep in the department and I brought Pajon and Taj and I were like a two person show for a long time. 00:41:27
And, you know, there was a lot of that job that got. 00:41:34
Kind of. 00:41:37
Either take it in or spread out so it's. 00:41:38
Reevaluate that now with the full team and. 00:41:41
And I hope to get it out. 00:41:44
Next week. 00:41:46
So it's approved the replace. 00:41:48
Oh, yeah. Oh, you just changed? Looking at changing the job description a little bit, yeah. 00:41:50
All right. Well, with that I think we can close the. 00:41:57
Working session and then we'll be starting at 5:30 on our regular. 00:42:01